They could also use a couple of wireless laptops; perhaps we should ban those as well? Should they be banned on trains out of interest? What about on ships? Perhaps there should be a cellphone exclusion zone around Washington DC?

I can’t think of anything worse than sitting next to someone on a cellphone during a plane flight, but this is stupid reason to ban them.

I don’t understand why gun advocates don’t think everyone on a plane should be allowed to carry a gun. Under gun advocate logic, then no terrorist would ever be able to bring down a plane, he would get immediatly shot.

Sometimes you just say the stupidest shit.

Wireless laptops are already forbidden.  Wireless ANYTHING is forbidden you fucking moron.  Get caught using it and you can face huge fines or jail time.

Your gun theory is cute, but retarded.  Not even a gun advocate would advise arming *everyone*.  But go ahead, pat yourself on the back for trying to be clever.

Intellectually bankrupt, padders...as usual.

Something about “his mouth is writing checks his brain can’t cash...” would go well here.

jim: interesting… what about lufthansa?  they have wifi on board!

jo- Betcha money it’s HEAVILY filtered and monitored.  It has to run through a router in order to work, which gives you the opportunity to watch the traffic.  I’ll bet a big chunk of change that it’s set to flag keywords, and not just the obvious ones.

Eschalon weren’t no fairy tale…

In fact, if *I* was running Lufthansa, I’d have a human monitor the traffic of at-risk passengers.  I would of course make that VERY CLEAR before allowing anyone to sign up.

OK, I just read through the tech specs for Lufthansa’s service...you have to log in to a router.  I seriously doubt they’d be allowed to fly to the US unless it was monitored.

So...anyone know how I could find out?

I’m sure you could find out by digging through some warez sites…

Jim,

Wireless laptops are already forbidden.  Wireless ANYTHING is forbidden you fucking moron.  Get caught using it and you can face huge fines or jail time.

Wireless laptops are not forbidden on any flight. You are not meant to use your wireless network. I am sure that rule will stop terrorists using them. Given that it is next to impossible to detect exactly where a wireless source is coming from, and I have yet to see any air stewardness working around with wireless detection systems, it seems a pretty easy option for any wannabe terrorits. Allowing the use of cellphones dosen’t seem to improve a terrorists ability to communicate one single bit. With wireless phones for VOIP use coming out now, you won’t even need a laptop/pda.

Jim, ok “everyone” was my word as opposed to no one. Use the same laws that are used for concealed carry. I guess I have never heard a gun advocate give a specific reason as to why guns should be allowed to be carried everywhere, apart from on planes. If you have a reason - which I am sure you do, I would just be interested to know what it is. I assume that you approve of armed sky marshals and armed pilots, why not armed citizens?

jo- Betcha money it’s HEAVILY filtered and monitored.

Encrypting data packets would be trivial. I guess they could check for encrypted packets, if they want to ban all https websites, messenger clients, google mail etc that all go over encrypted channels.

Drum, maybe jumped the gun a bit with your comment, but thanks for the laugh as usual.

OK, I just read through the tech specs for Lufthansa’s service...you have to log in to a router.

Just to add to this, you have to log into their router to get internet access. There is nothing to stop you setting up your own private wireless LAN, using your wireless card you are allowed to use. While some of the weaker encryption systems can be hacked, there is no way to hack the latest generaton to try and monitor any private wireless lans people setup.

Man, even a couple of PSPs in ad-hoc mode is all you need. Perhaps we need to arrest all those terrorist children playing with their multiplayer PSPs.

I’m so sick of arguing with someone who just wants to fight because he’s a Moore fan.  Go fuck yourself padders.

If you had one ounce of intellectual integrity maybe I’d give a shit what you have to say.

Ever try getting a cell signal at altitude? Good fucking luck. Using cell phone on planes is a moot point for the most part because it is almost impossible to get a carrier signal for a majority of the flight (there was a study done on this recently.. if I remember correctly (and I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time) connection success was around 1% at at 14,000 ft. and 0% higher). Much to do about nothing.

Jim: As for your photos.. any evidence that says the hijackers coordinated their attacks midflight by cell phones? I’ve never heard that they did. They were successful because excluding flight lessons, they required NO technology to succeed. That’s the scary part. Nice visual hyperbole, though.

Drum, maybe jumped the gun a bit with your comment, but thanks for the laugh as usual.

Nah, not really, but rest assured that you are not the only one amused at your rantings.

My point, for the “I have to argue with everything the guy on the right says” crowd, is cell phones would make it about 7238956926352 times EASIER to coordinate, and why in the name of fuck would we want to make it easier?

Does that make ANY sense in a security framework?  We joke about the shoes, no lighters, can’t have nail clippers and yet we accept it as a cost of flying in a post 9/11 world, but hey, give the fucking terrorists cellphones because KIDS HAVE PSPs.

It’s just stupid.  As though a group of Middle Eastern adult men all playing PSP at the same time on the same wouldn’t attract attention.  As though the fucking wireless aspect isn’t already illegal.

I swear, it’s like talking to a wall.

I’m so sick of arguing with someone who just wants to fight because he’s a Moore fan.  Go fuck yourself padders.

Jim, I am really not a Moore fan. Before I found your site I admit I liked some of the stuff in his books, I never really liked his films that much. I searched for sites discussing Moore to find out what others thought about what he wrote and to fact check. Your site definitely opened my eyes to how distortinary he is.

Despite that, I think sometimes you prescribe him things he didn’t say so dosen’t believe and I have defended that; I think that was certainly much more the case in Bowling than it what in F911, which in my opinion was a film 10 times as bad.

It might well be easier for you to just describe me as some crazy leftie, and it that makes you happy then thats fine by me; but it rather flies in the face of your accusation that *I* have no intellectual honesty.

Ever try getting a cell signal at altitude? Good fucking luck. Using cell phone on planes is a moot point for the most part because it is almost impossible to get a carrier signal for a majority of the flight (there was a study done on this recently.. if I remember correctly (and I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time) connection success was around 1% at at 14,000 ft. and 0% higher). Much to do about nothing.

This is the point. The airlines have come up with technology to get round this. Its basically a repeater station they install, so your cell phone connection goes into a base in the plane and then that gets sent, somehow to the main network. Maybe the sent it over VOIP and reconnect to satellite network on the ground, I have no idea - but they worked out how to do it to solve this problem.

Jim: As for your photos.. any evidence that says the hijackers coordinated their attacks midflight by cell phones? I’ve never heard that they did. They were successful because excluding flight lessons, they required NO technology to succeed. That’s the scary part. Nice visual hyperbole, though.

In fact there is cicrumstantial evidence that the plane that was brought down was because the people on it knew about the other attacks and knew the needed to act. Cellphones on the plane *may* have saved lots of lives there, of course we will never know.

My point, for the “I have to argue with everything the guy on the right says” crowd, is cell phones would make it about 7238956926352 times EASIER to coordinate, and why in the name of fuck would we want to make it easier?

Jim, I am sorry you think I/we are so dense in not getting your point; but the same applies the other way round. I don’t think cellphones make it any easier now, and especially not in the future. There are already ways to communicate in a way a phone allows very easily, and network phones coming soon for VOIP/skype will make that even easier. I don’t think cellphones makes a single tiny bit of difference about terrorists ability to coordinate.

You can put my disagreemnt of this down to that you have different political views about some things, but I really don’t see how this is remotlery a political thing - its not like I am defending peoples right to use cellphones on planes, I seriously hope airlines ban the things on planes, as I said its the most horrendous thing I can think sitting next to someone on a cellphone for an hour. Despite that I just don’t think for a minute it raises the chance of terrorism.

It’s just stupid.  As though a group of Middle Eastern adult men all playing PSP at the same time on the same wouldn’t attract attention.  As though the fucking wireless aspect isn’t already illegal.

You think 6 middle eastern men spread out across a 747 all playing PSPs would attract attention? To whom exactly? And what exactly would the airline staff do if the air stewardeness happened to coordinate their observations of PSP players. When we get wireless ipods that can share songs, would 6 middle eastern men with ipods attract attention. If the terrorists happened to be not middle eastern, but say chechynan - would we also be checking for russian speaking PSPers? Perhaps there an ethnic limit of the number of people who may play PSPs from a particular ethnic background if your ethnic background has a history of terrorism could be enforced?

As though the fucking wireless aspect isn’t already illegal.

But it won’t be on a number of flights very soon, not that I think obeying the wirless restrictions of airlines is a major worry for a terrorist who is about to hijack a plane.

I’d also like to point out the obvious: It isn’t paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.

padders, if you think 2 or more Middle Eastern men doing the same thing on ANY plane isn’t attracting the attention of every employee and half the travellers, your head is lodged firmly up your ass.  PC bullshit aside.  They are being watched.

But hey, what do you care, right?  As long as you can complain about America.

...Skype in a moving plane.  Jesus.  The fucker barely works on earth.  Good one.

But it won’t be on a number of flights very soon, not that I think obeying the wirless restrictions of airlines is a major worry for a terrorist who is about to hijack a plane.

So why would you intentionally make it easier?

Can you answer that?

Jim,

You have some knowledge about air stewardness training that I don’t. You honestly think they record people playing on PSPs? What exactly would they do if through the plane there are 4 people playing on them? Confiscate the PSPS? Have you ever been on a flight to/from anywhere in the middle east? Half the plane is full of middle eastern people, it would be physically impossible for people not to be doing the same thing.

Either way, if we have this impressive surveillance of middle eastern people using PSPs, why does it matter if they are using phones instead, if we can monitor those in stead. Either there is this survaliance so it dosen’t matter what they are using, or there istn’t so it does.

...Skype in a moving plane.  Jesus.  The fucker barely works on earth.  Good one.

So use vonage. The plane moving makes no difference if the internet connection is consistant, which given they are launching it seems they have worked it out.

So why would you intentionally make it easier?

As I said, I really don’t think it makes it easier at all.

And I am really not trying to antagonise you here Jim, I really just don’t think there is a security implication of cellphones on planes. I am really not trying to make it easier for terrorists to blow up planes, I travel on them quite frequently and would realy rather not die quite yet, if I thought it would make a difference you wouldn’t have any argument from me. The same applies with guns/sky marshals etc. I mean for crying out loud, I am pretty happy they are going to be banned, I just disagree with the reason for doing so.

I think this is the experiment I was remembering about the possibility of connecting to a cell phone network on an airplane. Some of his other theories seem a bit nutters, but this one he’s at least done the experiments on, for whatever they are worth (and if someone says “nothing”, I won’t argue it). I do think that it is interesting that no connections could be made at 8000ft, though.

padders: I didn’t know that there was some kind of new technology involved. the article linked doesn’t mention it (or I missed it if it did). If cell phones were used on 9/11, the plane would have been flying under the 8000’ altitude (2000’ seems to have decent success.. roughly the altitude that landing gear is deployed). I conceed the point. I don’t, though, think that it is reasonable to assume that the terrorists themselves would have used cell phones mid-flight.

For the record, I don’t think that cell phone use should be allowed on airplanes… not because of any alleged terrorist threat (the terrorists can use a damn skyphone that is in the seatback if they need to chat to each other.. which I’d be surprised if they needed to do this given how well they plan shit out) but because being on an airplane is the one place I don’t have to listen to everyone else’s damn phonecalls! :-)

Besides.. if I’m Akbar Terrorist and I want to coordinate my mid-flight plan to destroy the plane I’m on.. I’d just get out my laptop, use the skyphone in the seatback to log on to MSN Messenger, text with my buddies (assuring I won’t be overheard) and use a nice screen shade.. and viola! Now all I have to do is get past the air marshall and the reinforced cockpit door and it is 72 virgins for me!

Thats exactly my point Sean, a cellphone ban adds no security (and I hadn’t even thought about hooking up the skyphone to a laptop). I still hope they get banned though!