Ugh.  2009 can’t come fast enough.

While I think he’s wrong as to his reason, I think he might be right when it comes to the meaning of the Vice Presidential office as it applies to that piece of legislation.

There are a few perqs that come with the job of President, and one of them is the authority to declassify information, on the spur of the moment and retroactively, should he choose.

Same with the VeeP, IIRC.

Whaaa-whaa-whaaaa? 

Dude...Under no circumstances should the phrase not an “entity within the executive branch” EVER apply to the White House.

Besides that, Bush signed Executive Order 12958.  He even amended it.  NEVER did he except the office of the Veep.  The President himself says Cheney is wrong, at least according to the law.  When the National Archives office established to conduct this oversight and storage tried to get clarification, Cheney tried to have them shut down.

Sorry.  This is BS from the word jump.  Under all circumstances, no matter what Cheney thinks, the office of the Veep is always and forever an “entity within the executive branch.”

Under all circumstances, no matter what Cheney thinks, the office of the Veep is always and forever an “entity within the executive branch.”

I’m not doubting you. I even agree with you.

However, that isn’t what I’m saying.

POTUS and VPOTUS are what is known in the National Security field as “original declassifying authorities”, which means they can declassify information on the spur of the moment, such as during a press conference on international TV, and cause that information to be retroactively declassified (so that their release of that information does not constitute a national security breach), needing only the filing of the appropriate paperwork to make it “official”.

As such, that authority is no more subject to oversight by a subordinate (appointed) commission than is the President’s power to issue pardons.

His office is not “an entity within the Executive Branch”. His office IS “the Executive Branch”. Those (subordinate) entities work for him and Dubya, by definition (the same Article and Section you quoted, btw).

He’s got the delicate touch one would expect of Jason Voorhees, and he is using faulty reasoning, but I think he is still coming up with the right answers.

Actually, what he is pointing out is that executive authority is vested in the POTUS. Period.

Article II

Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. ...

The VPOTUS is part of the Legislative Branch, in fact, the head of it.

Doug

No, the Vice President is the President of the Senate.  And his only actual power there is to break a tie.

1. I don’t agree under any circumstances that the office of the Veep, one heartbeat away from controlling the Excecutive branch, is legally not a member of said branch of government, and no one else has EVER tried to say it was so in the goddamned history of the nation before this as far as I know.

I mean for fuck’s sake, this was just a question on “Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader.” What, Dick Cheney isn’t?

2. This fight is not about what can and cannot be called classified.  I agree that the White House hsould be able to decide what is and isn’t classified.  I mean, who the hell else could if not the two highest...get this...EXCECUTIVE POWERS...in the land?

That’s not the point here.  It is about archiving data for the future.  Classified or not, everything from the Prez and Veep should be archived.  Some things will be declassified in 50 years, some never will, some are declassified immediately, some never were classified to start with.  That’s not the problem here.

Cheney is trying to hide records from the very people that are supposed to maintain these records for future generations, historians and other Presidents.  THAT’S the problem.

It’s not about classifying or declassifying.  It’s about Cheney trying to hide something from history, and using this pathetic, Constitutionally incorrect reason to try and accomplish it.

Which of course begs the question of what it is he’s trying to hide.

Cheney is trying to hide records from the very people that are supposed to maintain these records for future generations, historians and other Presidents.  THAT’S the problem.

Ah. Why didn’t you say this in the first place?

I don’t agree under any circumstances that the office of the Veep, one heartbeat away from controlling the Excecutive branch, is legally not a member of said branch of government

The VPOTUS’ office is not a “subordinate agency of the Executive Branch”, it (along with the Oval Office) IS the Executive Branch. The POTUS and VPOTUS embody the Executive Branch in their individual persons. When being announced upon arrival and departure at a military command, both of them use the moniker “United States”. Whenever they are being flown on military aircraft, their planes automatically receive the call sign of “{Service Branch of aircraft}-One” and “-Two” (such as “Marine One” and “Navy Two").

But given your above statement, I agree with you.

All I was saying is that the POTUS and VPOTUS are not “agencies of the Executive Branch” - they ARE that branch. Those subordinate agencies work for them.

Ah. Why didn’t you say this in the first place?

Because I enjoy going the long way to say what I meant in the first place?  ;)

Short answer: i is no smart.

Does the veep have any actual point other than to maintain the time-space continum as well as casting the tie-breaking vote in Senate?

Does the veep have any actual point other than to maintain the time-space continuum as well as casting the tie-breaking vote in Senate?

He has no Constitutionally-defined duties other than to be President of the Senate (and to cast a vote in the infrequent event of a tie) and to take over in the event the POTUS is killed or otherwise incapacitated.

From a standpoint of precedent, he also serves on the National Security Council and makes speeches on the President’s behalf.

It seems to me something else is at work here. The Dems have been trying to get at the VP for quite a while and I suspect Cheney suspects a left handed attempt to get at stuff to which the Dems are not legally entitled. Maybe, once it’s in the hands of the National Archives, although classified, a member of the legislature can see it and oops, it leaked.
JimK I am surprised at how quickly you take a report in the media and assume the VP is up to something. I’m not saying his statement is correct or that POTUS’s order doesn’t apply but the VP is not a stupid man. When they attribute a stupid statement to him there is usually a lot more that we are not hearing.

Unless of course you think that the libs have been right about him all along. Maybe He and Rove are really looking for ways to rule the universe and get rich off oil prospects from Mars.

Sindri, you sound about as reasonable as the people still hanging onto the notion of “vast Right-wing conspiracy”.

This is part of the letter to the VP:

I question both the legality and the wisdom of your actions. In May 2006, an official in
your office pled guilty to passing classified information to individuals in the Philippines. In
March 2007, your former chief of staff, L Lewis “Scooter” Libby, was convicted of perjury,
obstruction ofjustice, and false statements for denying his role in disclosing the identity of a
covert CIA agent. In July 2003, you reportedly instructed Mr. Libby to disclose information
from a National lntelligence Estimate to Judith Miller, a former New York Times reporter. This
record does not inspire confidence in how your office handles the nation’s most sensitive
security information. Indeed, it would appear particularly irresponsible to give an office with
your history of security breaches an exemption from the safeguards that apply to all other
executive branch officials.

With that approach I’d make up whatever reason I could just to piss them off even if there was nothing to hide.

With that approach I’d make up whatever reason I could just to piss them
off even if there was nothing to hide.

Which would be about as bright as Saddam trying to bluff us by claiming he had WMDs. (Which, he did, just saying.)

Just to finish my point POTUS said he did not intend for the VP to be treated separately from himself with this EO. In other words POTUS agrees with the VP that the EO does not apply.

The point of this whole brouhaha was to once again make Cheney look like he felt he was above the law and a sinister force with in the Bush tyranny.

In effect a non-story set up to make the VP look evil. I knew there had to be more to it than what the press reported! “Oh that liberal media”