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Tue, 11 May 2004 22:57:38

Sully’s right

Andrew Sullivan makes a very good point.  This needs to happen

Let’s start an internet campaign to insist that the major media - including the New Yorker, the networks, the major newsweeklies, and every major paper - run a picture of Zarqawi holding up Nick Berg’s severed head. It’s time to release the Pearl video and stills too. Enough with the double standards. The media were absolutely right to show the abuse photos. But they are only part of the story. It’s about time the media gave us all of it, however harrowing it is.


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Posted by JimK at 10:57 PM on May 11, 2004
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#1  Posted by sardiax United States on 05/12 at 02:11 AM -

#2  Posted by outraged United States on 05/12 at 02:19 AM -

if you dare to watch this prepare to be shocked, sickened, saddened, and enraged.

this is the link directly to photos of the beheading and a video to be downloaded

Nicolas Berg’s head was not chopped off...it was sawed off with a steak knife while he screamed in agony and blood splattered everywhere.

WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC DEPICTION OF A HUMAN BEHEADING!

site has been experiencing HEAVY HEAVY TRAFFIC

#3  Posted by JimK United States on 05/12 at 06:13 AM -

I understand, but I also feel like if America, and the media, was so rabid to see some photos of a manpile...they should have the goddamned balls to face the realities of what is going on.\r
\r
We humiliate: They KILL.  Both are wrong, but one is WAY, WAY more wrong.  Much of America couldn’t WAIT to slam the military and the White House over Abu Gharib, but they can’t even bring themselves to look at this video.  I say fuck that...it should be on CNN and MSNBC and Fox every 5 minutes, just like the manpile photos.

#4  Posted by Alex United States on 05/12 at 03:44 PM -

letharjk, why do idiots like you keep making these rediculous accusations that we destroyed Iraq?  Is it because it does not fit your agenda to admit Saddam was responsible for the destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure, or you hate America so much you need to lay blame there - even if there are no facts to back those accusations up - to feel good about not being cuddled and loved enough by mommy?\r
\r
Berg was in Iraq for humanitarian reasons.  If you had bothered to research him you would have discovered the fact he has risked his life on numerous occasions to go to the world’s worst cesspools to try and make a difference.  Money meant nothing to this guy.  The reward for trying to do good deeds he got was a horrible and evil death and stupid people like you trying to spin this barbaric act as to not have to face the fact your side is denying the reality of this conflict.\r
\r
Frankly I am starting to feel people like you are just as dangerous as these terrorists to the welfare of ordinary people.

#5  Posted by outraged United States on 05/12 at 03:52 PM -

nick berg was working in iraq for NO pay to repair communication towers.  he had volunteered in Ghana to teach people how to make bricks the year before.

#6  Posted by letharjk United States on 05/12 at 04:07 PM -

Oh, I see, all the Americans in Iraq are doing pro bono work. And I thought they were there for the money. Silly me. And we didn’t destroy Iraq’s infrastructure with our carefully placed, noninvasive bombing. And we didn’t cause thousands of Iraqi children to die of malnutrition and disease, thanks to our sanctions against that country. And black is white, and the Easter bunny is real.\r
\r
Also Alex, don’t be angry because I have a mother. Asexual reproduction obviously brought you into this world, but I don’t blame you for it. I understand that right-wingers can’t let others get close enough to actually touch them, and that’s okay. The numbers show your kind to be dying off anyway, so what’s the rush?

#7  Posted by Alex United States on 05/12 at 07:49 PM -

Letharjk, �Oh, I see, all the Americans in Iraq are doing pro bono work. And I thought they were there for the money. Silly me. And we didn’t destroy Iraq’s infrastructure with our carefully placed, noninvasive bombing. And we didn’t cause thousands of Iraqi children to die of malnutrition and disease, thanks to our sanctions against that country. And black is white, and the Easter bunny is real.�

Nobody claimed all Americans in Iraq where doing pro bono work.  How ever you as an idiot claimed Nick Berg was there because he was a greedy bastard trying to make money since there where no jobs here in America.  I pointed that out and like a typical liberal you obfuscate the facts with drivel.

Iraq had very little infrastructure if any worth destroying, because Sadaam went out of his way to make sure only the people who supported his regime benefited from anything as basic as infrastructure.  Command bunkers, military airports & airplanes, and tanks might seem like basic infrastructure to someone like you but to me they are legitimate targets in a war.  Or are you trying to say Americans on purpose bombed building civilians lived in?  Show me the proof. And no Al-Jazeera is not a legitimate source of anything but anti-American and anti-Simitic propaganda.

What sanctions are you talking about?  The ones countries like Russia, Germany, and France with help from the UN ignored when running the oil-for-food program? You know, the one supposedly being investigated right now to figure out how come 10-20 billion dollars of kickback money, money that was supposed to feed and provide for basic necessities to the Iraqi people, was paid out to Sadaam in return for huge bribes.  Yeah, bribes that made numerous Russian, French, and German politicians and oil agencies as well as a large number of UN personnel tasked to run and watch over and make sure the money and the food went where it was supposed to, very rich.  All while the Iraqi kids where starving and dying, and Sadaam was building more palaces and buying new Russia and French weapons as well as the French & German made components to keep up his WMD programs (and these WMDs will eventually be found, as some proof is already showing up that some of these WMDs are in Syria and Lebanon).  But hey, the agenda is to get rid of Bush who will actually fight and might win against these evil people, and prove how evil America is for you throwbacks of the old Soviet era.

Black is only white when it needs to be so to make Bush and America look bad.  And the Easter bunny does exist:  It�s John Kerry.

#8  Posted by Alex United States on 05/12 at 07:51 PM -

And even though that might turn you on, I am sad to inform you I am nit asexual.  Ask both your mother and your sister Letharjk.  They can vouch for me.  BTW.  Tell your mother I want the expensive beer tonight when I drop bye, and not that cheap crap she gave me the other night.

#9  Posted by JimK United States on 05/12 at 10:50 PM -

Alex, would you mind shooting me an email?  I’d like to talk to you about something…

#10  Posted by rick United States on 05/13 at 04:30 AM -

No matter the reason, Nick did not deserve what happened to him!! My condolences to his family. It’s a really fucked up situation that ended him: someone trying to do some good in this fucked up world, only to get kicked in the ass. Why the fuck are we in Iraq anyway!!! Does anyone have an answer that makes some sense?

#11  Posted by scott Andrina United States on 05/13 at 06:41 AM -

yeah

#12  Posted by joe Canada on 05/13 at 08:49 AM -

it’s very sad for Nicolas Berg to have suffred and died like that, i’m also sad for the iraqui prisoners that have been humiliated. But it’s not because we actually see how it happened that it’s the end of the world: dozens of similiar cases happened and continue happening every day around the world. The question i’m asking is: why people are killing and humiliating others for? What are the causes of so much hate?\r
\r
Lack of communication leads to misunderstanding and conflict.

#13  Posted by JimK United States on 05/13 at 09:12 AM -

Joe: you’re absolutely correct.  Problem is, only one side of the Western Civ/Mujahideen conflict is willing to talk.  And the rest of the Arab world continues to give succor to those who murder and terrorize in the name of Allah.

At some point we have to face the fact that these are two VERY distinct and separate ways of looking at the world, and they maybe *should* be completely divergent.  We might be looking at complete social incompatablity.

Sometimes I wonder if we (meaning the US) should extract ourselves from the Middle East and let the region suffer whatever fate it deals itself.  We need to develop alternate energy, but in the meantime we need to harvest the oil America just sitting on.  Drill ANWR, kiss Venezuela’s ass for awhile, tell Saudi Arabia to go fuck themselves, apologize to Israel and wich them the best, and circle the wagons for a few years.  Let’s see how everybody likes it when the punching bag isn’t around to punch anymore.

Of course that’s the pessimist in me… :)

#14  Posted by Jason Australia on 05/13 at 11:58 AM -

I feel sorry for Nicolas Berg and his family as they are innocent victims of a war that will never end…

#15  Posted by letharjk United States on 05/13 at 02:31 PM -

Alex, my mom apologizes for the cheap beer. In her defense, she says when she poured it in the bowl you lapped it up without complaint. Also, she wanted to know if you’d defeated that mange problem yet. BTW, you dropped your collar while you were there. At least I think it’s yours. ‘Property OF Dubya Bush’.

#16  Posted by Biggs United States on 05/13 at 03:29 PM -

Daryl Parker-\r
Although I consider myself a liberal, I would like to state that I do not hate everything about america.  I support the military, and I agree that it is a vital and important part of our country.  I wish you the best of luck in Iraq and for the record want to say that not all liberals are anarchist/communist fools.  And Letharjk and Alex, both your opinions are valid, so shut up.

#17  Posted by serge Canada on 05/13 at 03:42 PM -

Suite a cette excution cruel par des fanatiques islamistes ...je sympathisais jusqu,a hier avec les musulmans et islamistes du monde ,...aujourd,hui je dis et crie haut et fort ...MORT A TOUS LES ISLAMISTES ..

#18  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/13 at 04:38 PM -

I totally agree that nobody deserves this it is an inhuman thing to do what ever the reason it is against islam and against all relegions and against humanity and it is clearly stated at this link\r
I am a muslim and I do NOT support these inhuman actions but I fell america has to know the motives behind them and stop causing the problem to put it as simply as possible these are the facts:\r
\r
1. Politics is a complex issue all issues are in one way or the other connected.\r
\r
2. almost all arabs including myself have a sense of arabism so if a man gets raped in iraq or a child gets killed in israel I get mad in egypt. but My hands are tied I can do nothing to help the child or the man.so naturally I am frustrated.\r
\r
3. To start it all off america supports israel’s every action including massacres in jenin, sabra,and shatila asking palestinians to restrain themselves. I ask you if you support israel where the hell was this implant nation 80 years ago and how do you explain the mass immigrations to it.\r
\r
4. meanwhile americas famous CIA trains arabs and afghani muslims to fight against the soviet invasion of the country in order to weaken its biggest rival at the time the soviet union.\r
\r
5. these trained fighters from all over the arab and muslim world win in their “Jihad” in a war that was fought away from our muslim world their ideologies morphed through religious ignorance and american teachings from the peacful islam I and millions of muslims believe into a vengeful violent force that wants to avenge the israeli violence and its american support and in turn become the enemies of america - the nation that created them -.\r
\r
6. israel continues its planned massacres and killings. palestians live without hope in the future they have no nation no rights no security. they are dying every day and nobody does anything.\r
\r
7. as a civilized person I go out and demonstrate - nobody listens - my nation doesnt approve the israeli actions but it doesnt have the military power to stop the israeli nuclear arsenal or the american arsenal.\r
\r
8. Palestianians rise up “intifada!!” the last resort is suicide bombings if you have no hope in living then an honourable death fighting your oppressor is the best you can hope for.\r
\r
9. america asks palestinians to restrain themselves. america outlaws their elected president. america doesnt condemn israel’s methods or its landgrab wall. america invades iraq. america tortures its prisoners though it was enraged when iraq showed interviews with american POWs in the beginning of the war this torture includes rape, electricution, male rape, threatning with dogs, killing, forced sex with other people for the viewing pleasure of the soldiers all in compliance with the geneva conventions!!!!.\r
\r
10.people in the arab world are desperate, hopeless, they no longer beleive in that justice will prevail. after all arab nations are asked to disarm, forced to disarm, or even occupied for the sole goal of creating a safer israel this makes me sick your american silence makes me sick. your american freedom of clothes brought to the iraqis makes me sick.\r
\r
11. after all this frustration you send an american jew to iraq I think your government was asking for it. Rational Muslims have nothing against jews but the number of irrational muslims has largely increased due to the before mentioned reasons of YOUR doing.\r
\r
12. Conclusion: America should have gone to this war without UN agreement but since it already happened it should pull out today. America should STOP its all out support of Israel. Only this will put an end to the violence both me and you hate.

#19  Posted by JimK United States on 05/13 at 04:57 PM -

Daryl,\r
\r
I’m going to offer you the same thing I’ve offered the other service members that have passed through here: If you ever want to get something posted to a blog while you’re over there, my blog is your blog.  Thanks for what you do, and stay safe!

#20  Posted by Daryl Parker United States on 05/13 at 05:15 PM -

JimK,\r
\r
Thank you.  I will probably take you up on that.\r
\r

#21  Posted by Sean Galbraith Canada on 05/13 at 05:31 PM -

A rough translation of what serge posted:\r
“Following this execution cruel by fanatics islamists… I sympathized, has yesterday with the Moslems and islamists of the world… today I say and shout high and the strong… DEAD ALL ISLAMISTES.”

#22  Posted by mourad b. France on 05/13 at 05:43 PM -

to Daryl Parker\r
\r
i have read you....i have to grant you of the fact that you are a courageous human.\r
as you said your family is torn up with your departure.\r
it’s your choice to go there after certainly having to think over and over about your decision. It’s a tough decision to make .\r
ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO YOU, IS BE CAREFUL....AND TRY TO GO BACK HOME SAFELY TO YOUR FAMILY.\r
you know as much as i know that idiots, stupid, low selfish level of conscience are all of the world. you found them in USA, in FRANCE or ARAB countries...and so on.\r
i am not a religious person, i don’t caution what happened to Nick as much i don’t caution what happened to the Iraqui prisoners.\r
i don’t have much of sympathy for some arab countries because we are arabs, we should deal with theses few people that use us. We need to get them so we can all of us around the world buid a better peaceful planet. We won’t probably see it in our lifetime but the sacrifice is worthed so our kids can enjoy it.\r
\r
and because out of respect, my name is mourad Bazizi.\r

#23  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/13 at 06:13 PM -

Daryl the way i see it you are getting too much of the american media viewpoint not the opposite. I for one do not watch any channel nor read any newspaper related to the hezbollah view point.\r
\r
America was wrong by the way to call them terrorists because they are defending themselves against an occupation from israel and they fight and die for that cause as you do for the states I dont call george washington a terrorist to the british empire he was simply a freedom fighter. i have never heard of hezbollah people making sex pyramids out of their hostages, americans did that. in my book the people who do this are in fact terrorists or tyrants which ever you call it.\r
\r
This occupation from israeli is recognized by -the united nations by the way- a part of lebanaon “shebaa farms” is still occupied by the way as we speak. and how do you explain syria’s golan heights occupied as well by israel back in 67 and still under occupation until today despite international condemnation.\r
\r
This is all happening with US approval and cooperation the war on iraq was NOT for democracy spreading you simply do not spend billions in order to free people you have nothing to do with you spend this sort of money to control oil sources, make billions in contracts, employ a friendly government “ friendly to both israel and the states” this government may include the likes of ahmad el gaalaby a renowned thief as long as the pentagon approves and as long as they vow to remain the polite nation that approves of what the states wants.\r
\r
Israel owns weopons of mass destruction, it has in incredibly unbeleivable human rights record of abuse torture and massacre, its priminister the so called “man of peace” sharon was the main man for massacres at sabra and shatilla, its nobel peace prize winning issac rabin ordered childrens hands to be broken for rock throwing at an invading army.It is in violation of a million United Nations decisions. but nobody goes to war with israel because this happens with US approval.\r
\r
You say israel would seaze to exist if the US didnt help it I say that further proves my point that it is an implant nation it wasn’t here and it well shouldn’t be they are the sole none arabic speaking nation in the area how do you explain that rainfall??!! they occupying british gave them our land which wasnt theirs to give and the occupying americans are doing the same.\r
\r
I ask you one question if I came to your hometown and started killing your people family and friends and occupied your town for 70 years “or a million” does that make it my hometown instead of yours?? I say NO but due to the current power balance I am forced to live with that and hope for divine intervention and help from the likes of the united states.\r
\r
I am sure america doesnt kill its sons and daughters for israel ONLY there is also the oil and the contracts and the presidetial elections!!!!!!\r
\r
It is a widely known fact that in the states the jewish lobby is so strong that it controls the way the elections go so every presidential hopeful has to go and kiss ass in order to get elected this jewish lobby is controlled by the jewish state Israel so in fact israel is running YOUR country for you from behind the curtains of a democracy.\r
\r
With all do respect sir and I do have respect for americans -people who have in 300 years formed the strongest civilization in history- stop watching CNN -I already do that for you- and start reading the other sides point of view. and if you ever come to egypt I would be glad to show you around and I am sure you would enjoy the free arab hospitality instead of the hostility prepaid by YOUR government.\r
\r
Hani from Egypt\r

#24  Posted by Sean Galbraith Canada on 05/13 at 06:48 PM -

With all due respect, does the Shari’ah permit the murdering of civilians on a bus via suicide bombings? (not an attack, a serious question)

#25  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/13 at 07:08 PM -

the answer to your question is definatly NO!!!!the killing of INNOCENT civilians is definatly prohibited by the Shari’ah even at times of war.\r
\r
but to comment on the question it should be more like this: should that bus have been there in the first place?? or is that bus actually misplaced and forced upon the natives of the land and in turn “unwanted” this bus didnt come as a welcome visitor to the region it came with the sole purpose of occupying the land and making it their own and terrorizing the natives who were living their lives peacefully.\r
\r
so if a suicide bombing occurs it isnt out of personal hobby. Arabs dont go “i’m bored. let go commit suicide and kill a few israelis!!!!!” suicide bombing happens as a last resort of people with no hope, no resources, no help from the outside world and no local or international body that does them justice -with the exception of the powerless United Nations which has done that time and again to no avail- people who have had their children killed like the father of mohammed el dora whose son was killed while hiding in his arms sitting on the floor hiding from israeli bullets.\r
\r
so I ask you one last question does the description “Innocent Civilians” really apply to the category of people you secretly implying or are they just as guilty as any occupying force for the sole reason of choosing to immigrate to a land that they occupied in order to make it their own.\r
\r

#26  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/13 at 10:13 PM -

really cool opinion from “bones” in other words “whats the problem just move the natives. fuck them. there isnt enough of them anyway. the arabs should take them in if not who cares they can be our sex slaves god knows I need one."\r
\r
isn’t it this the kind of inconsiderance that starts all wars daryl??\r
and by the way who said we have no food or no life?? I ask you daryl to point out the truth to him as it would be more convincing from an american witness than from a biased arab.

#27  Posted by Sean Galbraith Canada on 05/13 at 10:26 PM -

Hani: bones’s obvious idiocy aside, he does mange to raise a good point: Why aren’t the neighboring Arab countries coming to the Palestinian’s assistance? 

#28  Posted by Sean Galbraith Canada on 05/13 at 10:34 PM -

Hani: Thanks for your response. I will reply when I have a longer opportunity.

#29  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/13 at 11:11 PM -

what do you suggest as assistance accomodation so that israel can easily deport them or assistance in the form of humanitarian aid and police training and intellegence help such as negotiating with the different palestinian organizations to reach agreements if you mean the latter we already do that you probably dont know that palestinian students study in our universities for free but if you mean give them the nationality and let them move in then that would only help israel palestinians want their land back not move to neighbouring countries.

#30  Posted by Daryl Parker United States on 05/13 at 11:42 PM -

Hani,\r
\r
I read over my last response, and I sound pretty angry.  I am not trying to provoke you - the last thing I need is another enemy:)\r

#31  Posted by Daryl Parker United States on 05/13 at 11:49 PM -

Mourad Bazizi,\r
\r
Thank you for presenting me with your name.  You seem like a good man, who would make a good friend. 

#32  Posted by jack United States on 05/14 at 12:25 AM -

this is so terrible what they did

#33  Posted by Hani from egypt Egypt on 05/14 at 02:02 AM -

Daryl, This is turning into a very constructive debate and by the way I didnt find anything offensive or provocative about your post. I hope you didnt find anything offensive in mine but I am sorry if you did because I didnt review my post I just wrote naturally whatever came to mind. I wouldn’t consider myself your enemy I would even be honoured to become a friend.\r
\r
I am glad we agree on few things I will start by pointing them out:\r
\r
1. israelis aren’t the excellent do gooders the media pictures them to be they are at times in fact as you put it “like fighting dogs who have tasted blood”.\r
\r
2.the establishment of Israel was NOT the most well-thought-out plan, but what’s done is done.\r
\r
3.we don’t want our children and grandchildren blowing themselves up.\r
\r
4.Al qaeda and taliban were and continue to be a disgrace to islam “to which it doesn’t belong” to arabs, and to humanity.\r
\r
5.our form of government does indeed have its downside I am not satisfied at all with the election system at the moment but that is gradually changing to the better I believe our people have the capacity and ability to fix historical wrong doings in our laws. by the way we dont have a king we have a president-a long lasting one- but still a president. :) I couldnt tell if you was being sarcastic about this king thing or was it wrong information on your part.\r
\r
I merely pointed out the lobbying issue so maybe a few reasonable voices might try to change that part of your system which made the government captive to the influential jewish communities that elect them instead of doing what is right and best for the country.\r
\r
6.Were you wrong to remove this madman and his murderous sons? Time will tell.I am prepared to wait.\r
\r
7.the killing of any innocents is unacceptable. That means old men in wheel chairs, women children\r
\r
however I disagree with some points in your post:\r
\r
1.House Wives and Civilian men who do not conform to a militant viewpoint and are merely trying to live as grocers, bankers, taxi drivers IN OCCUPIED TERRITORIES are not innocents they are the guys who try to force their views upon us by making it a reality live a normal life in my land and call it yours that is the situation in the west bank settelments mister Bush has promised to let the israelis keep.\r
\r
2. in occupied territories according to the united nations agreements if you are not a palestinian then you are the enemy killing you is by all moral standards a sworn duty.\r
\r
3. The people who fit the exact same description House Wives and Civilian men who do not conform to a militant viewpoint and are merely trying to live as grocers, bankers, taxi drivers and even INCLUDING ARMY PERSONEL living within the united nations recognized borders of israel are definatly innocent and deserve every right you mentioned it is as simple as that step into my domain with the wrong intentions and you are picking a fight.\r
\r
4. I do not know a single arab that would even consider making peace with a nation that occupies one of the holiest of islamic cities i.e. jerusalem the best we can live with is the palestinian rule on its designated territory which includes a part of jerusalem which includes al masjid al aqsa one of the holiest of muslim mosques and one which sharon went into guarded by 5000 guards causing the second intifada to erupt.\r
\r
5.I do not consider an attack launched by hezbollah in shabaa farms “an occupied territory” a terrorist action.\r
\r
6.By speaking about the United Nations I mean the security counsil which tries everytime to convict israel only to fail because of an american Veto. Nations like france germany and china I respect because they chose no to encourage israeli actions against palestinian natives, or american actions against iraq. I have a firm beleif that when people get mad enough at their heads of state they topple them they dont call for external aid.\r
\r
7. by the way israel never had a moral high ground I can point out many examples through out history but my fingers are getting too tired typing enough for today :) but you can check out this website www.aad-online.org\r
\r
8.the cowardly bastards who commit these types of crimes always appear with their faces masked because of exactly that they are cowardly bastards so its natural to hide behind masks for them.I expect them to be punished for their actions i hope that it would be infront of an iraqi justice system though and I hope that they get the death penalty for killing a defenceless man who could not do a thing to defend himself and for the damage they have caused time and again to islam as a religion of peace. by the way did you know that the word islam in arabic is derived from the same word as peace which means salaam in arabic. Salaam Islam .Peaceful Islam\r
\r
\r
Hani\r
\r
by the way here’s a question for you what do you think of america’s warcrimes and genocide against the native indians??? just kidding :) you dont have to answer that one

#34  Posted by elie Japan on 05/15 at 02:43 PM -

I dont know what to say.....

basically islam is the relegion of blood..and those bastards who did this to Mr berg are demons..even demons are better..they think theyre doing god a favour..they dont even know god..
muslims everywhere are being miss understood i know..but those god damned terrorists gave us a an imagine about their fucking qoraan!!!
i agree with the american army about what his doing in iraq..they need to be nuked this is a crossade war!! even jesus christ showed humanity rage and anger when he saw what he saw in the temple of god! how come to us we christians! when we see this error from muslim animals..theyre forcing us to always hate them and kill them and drink their blood alive!!\r
as for me i got no porblem cutting the head of a muslim baby or splitting apart the stomach of a pregnant muslim women! or even piss on the kaaba!~ and the fucking koraan!!!
i got no problem collecting muslim blood and let my pitbull dog drinks from it!!
behold al qaeeda memeberS!! behold!! for the wrath of heaven is coming soon upone you all!! and you will all beg for mercy you and your false relegion!!!
soon!!
god bless you american army and protects your memebers from everything!
george bush..i love man! keep on fucking muslims!
please!…


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