Jesus lord almighty. Thank god this guy wasn’t spouting this shit when Moore was still doing anti-gun movies. Just holy-damn-shit, that stupid motherfucker. He’s sounding like you’d expect, well, a Klansman to sound.
Thanks, you dumb turdsniffer, for personifying everything bad that people THINK the NRA is.

he screamed to applause

Sounds like his message well received. Maybe there weren’t many decent, responsible gun owners in attendence.

Hmm. Well, there may have been people who felt obligated to applaud, or they could have just been caught up in the moment, or you’re right, it could have been a crowd of people as whacked-out as he is.
It looks like the parties are continuing to move towards extremist ends of their spectrums, and it won’t be long before anyone tending towards the middle is left out in the cold. Though I REALLY hope I’m wrong.

I don’t trust reporters describing crowds anymore after that AP reporter literally invented a crowd reaction to Bush last October.  The reporter that filed the wore story could just hate the NRA and been exaggerating the response. 

Or it could be true and that would truly disappoint me.

JimK: A good point. I wouldn’t say it would be much of a stretch that they’d applause.. it could even be they started applauding at the “I want these people dead” part and it carried through the “no courts” part .. and they were looking at each other stunned. The description doesn’t have enough details to stand on.

Check out nugents speech on nranews.com

Evan

I always thought that Charlton Hesston hurt the cause more than helped with his “dead cold hands” bullshit and things of that nature.

That’s what pissed me off about the NRA. Even small things like mandating that trigger locks be sold with weapons, they would fight. Sometimes you have to pick your battles and when you start fighting things that sound reasonable to most people then most people start thinking your other points are bullshit too.

Watch, Nugent will end up heading the NRA at some point… then everyone is fucked.

I agree with Rann’s comment about nowhere for the middle to go. It’s not like moderate politicians aren’t out there, it’s just the extremists are leading the parties now. Vote for a moderate, get an extremist because of the arm twisting.

People, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… run off elections. We need new parties that can win. Fuck both the Democrats and the Republicans.

Trigger locks are a stupid idea, as anyone who has been in adefensive situation can tell you.

Your ignorance of gun issues doesn’t surprise me.

Trigger locks are an excellent idea, as anyone who has had their kid accidentially shoot themselves (or someone else) because they found the gun and it was unlocked can tell you.

By the “defensive situation” standard, which I find to be a red herring because most gun owners have never and will never be in such a situation (just as most citizens in general won’t), any impedement to the gun’s use is dangerous.. like putting it on a high shelf. Or in a drawer. Or in a gun safe. Or having it unloaded. Or ever not in your hand.

For the record, Jim, I’m not saying that you’re wrong in your example of when trigger locks would be a hinderance. I’m simply saying that that isn’t the be all and end all of the issue.

And guess what Sean?  Most gun owners will never be in the situation where they have to cope with their child shooting themself.

What’s more likely for someone to get robbed and need their gun or for someone’s kid to get ahold of the gun and hurt themself or someone?  Especially considering that you can attempt to teach the kid how dangerous a gun is.

I’d love to see statistics of that.  If we lose a few kids to gun accidents but stop 50 times as many potentially fatal encounters with various criminal types isn’t it worth it?

How many people’s families are harmed because they DIDN’T have a gun to defend themselves with?

That’s quite the contradiction, Sean, that you tout the “won’t somebody please think of the children” line, which happens many orders of magnitude LESS than defensive uses of firearms in the home, then dismiss the defensive use as if it never happens.

And there is another perfect example of illogic stemming from literal ignorance of guns and gun issues.

You know what stops kids from shooting themselves accidentally?  TRAINING.  That, my friend, is a fact that any gun owner with kids, or who was raised in a gun-friendly home, can tell you.

Of course, gun-grabbers tend to mock the idea of teaching children gun safety, too. Just look what Seth Mcfarlane did with that concept.
“Hi! I’m Petey the Pistol! Do you get lonely sometimes? Me too! Hold me! If you squeeze me, I make bad people go away!”

Sean,

Would you care to explain to me what the 2 times I defended myself with a firearm in my home were? Thankfully I have never had to shoot the intruders on both occaisions, but I would have killed the intruders if they escolated the situation. If I had a trigger lock on my weapon during those occaisions, I would have been harmed or killed while fumbling with the key or combination.

I also had to defend myself twice on the job as a armed security officer, with my sidearm. Again never had to fire.

If you have children in the home, then i recommend that they start the Eddie Eagle Gun Saftey Program as well as having the responsible adults training them.

Evan

davidst:

And guess what Sean?  Most gun owners will never be in the situation where they have to cope with their child shooting themself.

I completely agree. John Lott said it was about 1400 (under the age of 15), for one year in the 1990s.. I forget which one off the top of my head. My point was not to say that one happens more often than another, I’m fully aware that accidential child shootings (which is a subset of accidential shooting overall, of course) is a statistically rare occurance. My point was to point out that gun trigger locks are not ALWAYS a “stupid idea” and that there perfectly valid reasons for someone using one.

My second point was to say that using Jim’s logic, anything other than always having the gun loaded and on your hip as you wander around the house is an impediment to one’s safety. Having personally spent time in Jim’s house with him, and not feeling the least bit unsafe, I can’t remember the last time I saw him packing heat while watching tv (though, last I saw him it was a couple years ago.. his habits may have changed since then). Not having his gun on him at that moment was putting himself at just as much risk as if the gun was upstairs and locked should a burglar break in.

What’s more likely for someone to get robbed and need their gun or for someone’s kid to get ahold of the gun and hurt themself or someone?

Thankfully both are rare and that the latter is even more rare. Again, my point was not to make a statistical comparrison of the two and my comment should be be inferred as such (my fault for not explaining that).

Especially considering that you can attempt to teach the kid how dangerous a gun is.

I completely agree. While I don’t ever plan on owning a gun, I do plan on teaching my theoretical kid basic gun safety.

I’d love to see statistics of that.  If we lose a few kids to gun accidents but stop 50 times as many potentially fatal encounters with various criminal types isn’t it worth it?

Depends who you ask. Was it worth it to the 1400 families who lost their kids? Would it be worth it to you? That’s the wrong question to ask, I think.

How many people’s families are harmed because they DIDN’T have a gun to defend themselves with?

How many gun owners were harmed because they had a weapon in the house ready to go, but were simply in the wrong room when it needed to be used? You can get whatever result you want depending on the question you ask.

JimK: Read my last answer and if I didn’t address any of your comments by it, let me know where and I will. I definitely do not consider myself ignorant of “gun issues”.

CaptCBleu:

Would you care to explain to me what the 2 times I defended myself with a firearm in my home were?

A statistical anomoly. Of course, that comforts you as much as the fact that accidental child deaths being rare comforts the parts of those kids. I think you’re misinterpreting what I wrote. I did not say that trigger locks should be shipped with guns. I did not say that trigger lock use should be mandatory. I didn’t say or imply anything of the sort… I said that trigger locks are not always stupid and that they are no more an impediment to one’s safety than any of the other examples I gave (assuming that the Jim Standard of being able to shoot someone who bursts in without a second to spare is used).

Thankfully I have never had to shoot the intruders on both occaisions, but I would have killed the intruders if they escolated the situation.

Of course. Glad to hear you’re safe an in one piece. Personally, I suggest moving. :-)

As for me, I lived in one of the most crime ridden neighborhoods of Tampa (2 or 3 on the crime rate per capita in the US), Ybor City .. the ghetto, and never once had a problem with crime.

If I had a trigger lock on my weapon during those occaisions, I would have been harmed or killed while fumbling with the key or combination.

Or you could have practiced using the lock quickly. But either way, a trigger lock would have been no more an impediment to your safety than would you having been in a different room at the time. Do you have a gun on you at all times, 24hours a day? (you might)

I also had to defend myself twice on the job as a armed security officer, with my sidearm. Again never had to fire.

Well, that is your job after all. No one has ever suggested that a trigger lock be used for a security guard.. that would be truly stupid. Again, glad you’re ok.

Also, in 98% of instances where a gun was used in self-defence it was never fired (again, according to Lott). The mere showing of the gun was enough to end the situation. So an unloaded gun is just as viable as a self-defence method, statistically speaking, as a loaded gun.

If you have children in the home, then i recommend that they start the Eddie Eagle Gun Saftey Program as well as having the responsible adults training them.

I completely agree.

But either way, a trigger lock would have been no more an impediment to your safety than would you having been in a different room at the time.

Spoken like someone who has never bothered to research the actual ways people use guns defensively.  You *are* ignorant of how these things actually play out in the real world.

Sean, bottom line is you don’t have any facts here, but you’ve already made up your mind that trigger locks are some kind of panacea.  They aren’t.

Actually, I have researched it, thanks. (hence, being able to source John Lott.. or even knowing who he is).

And, once again, I’m not saying that trigger locks are any kind of panacea. Nothing close to the sort. I am, though, saying that trigger locks can’t be dismissed as “stupid”, using your defensive perspective, any more than “not always having a gun within arms length” is stupid. If the standard against which something is judged to be “stupid” or “not stupid” is whether or not it can be used at a split second’s notice, as you’re apparently suggesting, then anything that remotely impedes a weapon’s use is “stupid” (just in case).

Sean, and I don’t mean to make this a big fight, but citing John Lott doesn’t give you any understanding of how a defensive situation develops or how a firearm can, is or should be used in said situation.  Massad Ayoob’s back catalog would be a good place to start.  Learning the techniques taught at Gunsite or the S&W;law enforcement/defense training facility would be another.

That having been said, let me clarify...making trigger locks mandatory IN THE HOME is a stupid idea.  It should not be law.  It deserves to be fought.

There are scenarios where a trigger lock makes sense...hence my owning them.  But to pass a law?  Stupid.  Debated and passed by men and women who aren’t gun owners and have no real world idea what the fuck they’re talking about.

That having been said, let me clarify...making trigger locks mandatory IN THE HOME is a stupid idea.  It should not be law.  It deserves to be fought.

THAT I completely agree with and if you had said that at the start I wouldn’t have said word one.

Jim,

Don’t like trigger locks eh?

Well, instead of just blowing up at me, why not think of a better solution. How about smart guns? The ones where the only people that can fire them are the ones wearing a ring that “unlocks” the gun. That won’t impede you.

I dunno Jim, you’re sounding like an extremist to me and you accuse other people of not knowing what they are talking about, yet you don’t provide statistics yourself.

BTW, the trigger lock thing I was talking about was just requiring that a trigger lock is provided with the gun at the time of sale. I have heard of other proposed laws where they would be mandated in the home, but I wasn’t talking about those. Sorry for the confusion.

Regardless, if you want to keep your guns you’re going to have to come up with a solution to kids getting a hold of them and killing people or themselves. It really doesn’t matter the statistics, the stark reality is people want something done and it’s either take away the guns or prevent kids from using them. Which do you want?

If someone is not mature enough to handle drinking until 21, how in the hell do you think they are mature enough to be trained not to play with guns at age 5? You don’t have kids do you Jim?

Oh, not to mention teenagers who have so many hormones raging that they actually look for that gun because they got picked on in school or something along those lines.

Mirk...you are an unwelcome D.U. troll and do not deserve a decent conversation. 

Anyone that touts smart guns as a viable alternative is someone who is wholly ignorant about firearms.  Even the MAKERS of smart guns know they suck.

Regardless, if you want to keep your guns

The sheer and utter condescension packed into those eight words is mind-boggling. Could you try to sound a little more as if you were some parent scolding a naughty child if you tried?
Here’s a little tip. If you actually want to have an adult conversation with someone, you must approach them and act as if you are an adult. Adults can only have adult conversations with other adults… if you come from a position where you place yourself as superior, you will find your opposite either lashing out or trying to wrest that higher position from you, because it’s simply human nature.
Not that I believe for a moment you want an adult conversation.

Rann, spot on.  Not to mention, the solution is and always has been TRAINING and EDUCATION, but the gun grabbers can’t ever admit that training works, because that would make the NRA right, and we all know that could never happen.

It’s funny...the same people that say the way to prevent massive increases in teen pregnancy and STDs is training and education, but that logic never carries over into other avenues of life.

I’ll never understand people that violate their own rules of logic so goddamned often.

I completely agree that training and education works.. which is why I’m fully behind the way it is done up here. If you want to buy a gun, you have to take a safety and operation course to get your Firearms Certificate (F.A.C.). Basically, a driver’s license for guns. In addition, if you sell your guns it is the seller’s responsibility to verify that the buyer has an F.A.C. as well. Just common sense, I think.

Okay R2,

I’ll leave you alone, but you should pay a visit here:

My Position

It might do you good to hear my side of things, because I’m not alone.

Take it easy, I won’t bother visiting your site anymore.

Don’t let the internet cram itself up your ass on the way out!

On the contrary.

DO let the Internet cram itself up your ass on the way out. Just don’t let it slow you down any…