I generally agree with you on this one Jim.

I’m not sure I want anyone eating out my various orifices though. Hey, but I’m liberal; I’ll protect your right to do what you want with your body.

Regarding the Republican vs. Democrat thing. Take a look at Tom Delay, that guy is so friggin bought and for sale that I think I saw a special on Delay at the local Kmart.

I will say that I have seen some pretty crappy things in the Democratic camp on this issue (the money thing) too, so you’re not wrong to point it out. I just think you’ve got your blinders on in regards to the Republican Party. They are even worse than you make them out to be, because they usually suck up more corporate donations than the Democratic Party.

But, you know what? Both parties are bought, but I’ll vote for the one that actually votes my way on issues I care about and that is *not* the Republican Party.

“Personal Freedom” to the Republican’s is just a marketing term. Seriously, this is nothing new. Same with “Small Government.” Have you ever seen small government from the Republicans? In our lifetimes?

BTW, did you know I voted Libertarian in 2000? At the time, my main priority was the drug war and government intrusion on our personal lives because of it. Neither the Democrats nor Republicans wanted to end the drug war, so I voted Libertarian. I also didn’t like Gore because he played that “moral” crap with music. Remember that?

If I had it to do over, I’d vote Gore though. Sigh.

I’m glad I didn’t vote Bush, but I was rooting for him at the time. How embarrassing.

If we had runoff elections I’d probably vote half Green half Libertarian to try and get a happy balance. Maybe a quarter Green… Oh well, who am I kidding, I don’t think I’ll see runoff elections in my lifetime, so I’m stuck with the Democrats for now.

They are even worse than you make them out to be, because they usually suck up more corporate donations than the Democratic Party.

Incorrect. The Republican party gets far more donations from private citizens than from corporations. It’s the Democrats who are more often bought and sold by companies.

Both parties are bought, but I’ll vote for the one that actually votes my way on issues I care about and that is *not* the Republican Party.

Just out of curiosity, what issues are those and when was the last time the Democrats voted the way you wanted on them?

That was a fast reply. I can’t find good data to compare the two sides dollarwise. I could compare apples to oranges and make the point go either way, but I’d prefer solid data.

During the election I was following this stuff more closely so it’s just a matter of digging it up, you’d think it would be easy. If you’ve got something that is good please post it.

Regardless, I did say that both parties are bought.

Issues:
Patriot Act – Democrat (I’m against it, Dems screwed me the first time, but most are now against it, at least the worst parts, some Republicans are also against it)
Pro-choice, Democrat
Right to die with dignity, Maybe Democrat definitely not Republican
Education, Democrat (California)
Social Security, Democrat (I’ve got a brokerage account, don’t need another one)
Labor rights, Democrat
Renewable energy, Democrat
HIPAA, Democrat (I ride a motorcycle and my insurance better cover me since I pay for it)
Sex, Democrat (Stay the fuck out of the bedroom you sexually repressed Republican Puritans)
Smut, Democrat (I like smut)
Gun Rights, Republican (Except for some southern Dems)

I dunno, throw some issues out and I’ll answer. I’ve just found that most issues that have come up I’ve side with the Democrats or rather they’ve sided with me. Except guns. I’d like to see the CCW laws loosened up although I don’t really have a problem with permits or a trial program to make sure gun violence doesn’t go up.

Now, you’ll always find people in the party that don’t vote party lines, but I’m sure you’ll agree for the issues I’ve listed the Democrats generally vote my way. You might not agree with me on the issues and that’s okay. I am rather moderate, so I don’t go to the extreme on any of the issues, I just lean a certain direction.

Yeah, but Mirk, the point I was making was when was the last time the Democrats actually VOTED that way? I mean, can you point to any specific votes on particular issues?
I mean, as to things like smut and freedom of expression, it was Al Gore’s wife who was instrumental in instituting warning labels and such on CDs, and wanted to go even further, if I recall.
And you point out yourself that the Democrats screwed you on the Patriot Act the first time, but that “most of them are against it now”. Well, which ones are against it? Have they actually pledged to vote it down or vote against it? Until they do, you might not want to count that one.
Okay, pro-choice, good… which Democrats are actually being responsible for this? What votes have they taken? Which Democrat politicians have stepped forward and kept a woman’s right to choose where it was being infringed?
The right to die with dignity, have any votes actually been taken on the matter? If so, who actually voted what way?
Education? Many Democrat politicians opposed the voucher program, which would allow all students to have a chance at better, private schools. Education didn’t improve under Clinton that we could see. What actual votes or financing have the Democrats given education?
You see where I’m going with this? My point isn’t that they DON’T do these things, but at this point I’m asking if you actually know whether they’re really, actually vote this way and support these things, or if they’re just paying lip service. You need to not be distracted by what the Democrats SAY they’re for and why you should support them, and should actually take a look at what they’re DOING.

Uh, I was the one that brought up Al Gore and the “moral” crap with music remember?

Well, I’m not going to spend all night looking for proof for you. Feel free to give me a list of votes if you want to prove your point though.

Patriot Act:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sleeper/tools/patriot.html

Do a search on boxer and it will list five bills brought by four Democrats, two Republicans.

Pro-choice:
Give me a break. I’m not getting you a list. I don’t hear too many Democrat’s spouting off this “Culture of Life” crap. I can tell you Feinstein and Boxer are solidly pro-Choice and vote this way. Do you just want to see if I actually waste my time with this? Why don’t you show me how pro-choice Republicans are?

Right to die:
It wasn’t the Democrats that brought up the Schiavo bill remember? The Senate did vote unanimously on it, but that was a voice vote. All you had to do was not speak up when the Nays came by to get it unanimous. Crappy - I know - that they didn’t vote it down, but even crappier to introduce the thing.

Education:
I’m against school vouchers. I don’t want people sending their kids to some place that is going to indoctrinate them with some “Culture of Life” crap. I don’t want to deal with these kids when they become adults and start infringing on my rights.

Schwarzenegger has not kept his promise for school funding. Fuck him. He’s out.
http://www.cta.org/News/2005/20050405_1.htm

I’ve tracked Boxer’s votes on issues I care about as they’ve come up and every one of them – every single one – has been on my side. Again, not getting a list for you.

When I commented to Jim, I wasn’t trying to sell the Democrats, if I was I wouldn’t be talking about how they’re bought. I’m just telling you guys that the Republicans suck ass even worse than what Jim has brought up.

They suck hard core. The only other party that can win is the Democrats. If they are even a little less shitty than the Republicans I’m voting for them.

Until we have run off elections it’s either Party A or Party B.

I’ll tell you one thing, I didn’t really care for Clinton when he was in office, but holey shit do I miss him now. Actually, the only reason I didn’t care for him was Janet Reno, but little did I know we’d end up with Ashcroft and now the quaint Geneva Convention guy Gonzales. Ashcroft even had dad anoint him with Crisco! Crisco! I shit you not:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2001/01/22/son.html

My country wasn’t a fucking mess until these arrogant prick Republicans took control of Congress and the Execute branch and I don’t remember hearing Clinton yapping about “Culture of Life,” almighty this and almighty that every friggin two seconds. Seriously! When does Bush ever have a speech were he isn’t whoring out to the God crowd?

Yadda yadda and so forth. The Republican Party sucks except if you want the church running government.

Executive branch. Sorry, I started to get a little angry. I really really don’t like the Republican Party.

There are a few people in the Party that I like, but it just doesn’t matter because they get their arm twisted by the party’s leaders. So, even if they would like to represent my views, they can’t.

Feel free to give me a list of votes if you want to prove your point though.

My point was actually asking if you knew these votes. It was more that people tend to support the Democrats for stuff the Democrats SAY they do but are only paying lip service to.

The only other party that can win is the Democrats.

Sorry, “They’re electable” just isn’t enough for some people.

Look at this nub job website.  I found a flier from these assholes on my car today after as I was leaving the university.

http://alamoministries.com/content/english/antichrist_lit_.htm

The flier is a bit different, but the jist is the same.

Rann,

This was just posted today on Reuters and I thought of you right away:
Reuters Article

The California Compassionate Choices Act was authored by two Democrats:
Authors of the Bill

I don’t know who voted for it and against it yet, but I do know two Democrats wrote it. I don’t see anything like this being written by Republicans. We’ll see if it makes it in the end.

While I was googling I ran across this article:
Ashcroft fighting the citizens of Oregon

Which shows Ashcroft going against Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act. An act passed through proposition – voted in directly by Oregon voters. This amazes me because aren’t Republican’s supposed to be for state’s rights?

So, the Republicans are actively doing what I don’t want them to do while the Democrats are actively doing what I want them to do… most of the time. More importantly, the Democrats aren’t actively shitting on all my rights like the Republicans.

I’ll keep an eye on the news and post anything else that comes up related to our discussion. It’s not like I keep a log of these things.

Y’see, Mirk, that’s all I’m asking. I was sincerely asking you if you knew these kinds of things, and were following what the Democrats were actually DOING in these things. I was not saying they actually don’t (though I feel many of them really don’t), but more that if you’re going to support a party, be aware of what they’re actually doing for you instead of what they just SAY they’re doing for you.
See, you have your priorities, and you’ve now provided examples of how Democrats are serving those priorities. But what about, say, black voters? Very often, black voters are inundated with the idea that the Democrats are the only ones that care about them, don’t hate them, and are going to do things for them. When in actuality, if you look at the voting record and what’s being proposed, nothing is really being done for minorities by Democrats… or at least not nearly as much as the Democrats say they’re doing. But the IDEA has been firmly implanted that Democrats are the party of equality.

Well, it’s not so much what the Democrats are doing. It’s what they’re not doing. The Republicans as a whole are trying to roll back affirmative action while the Democrats as a whole are not.

I personally feel that affirmative action has to go away sometime otherwise it would have been a failure. But, I think it should be a slow phase out in all programs rather than just completely stopping a program here and there. Like a 20 year plan or something.