this is one of the topics i by NO means think kerry is stretching even a teeny tiny bit.\r
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with all due respect, i think you’re way off base on this one.\r
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the quote is that there is a deterioration in our public health and safety as a result of bush’s polcies.  if it were possible for me to agree with that more than 100%, i would.\r
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you should read the candidate profiles on the league of conservation voter’s website.  of note, the lcv is a nonpartisan organization (at least i know the NYLCV is, so i assume the national organization is.)\r
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here’s a lovely excerpt from page 4 of the profiles:\r
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In its 2003 report card, the League of Conservation Voters awarded President George W. Bush an unprecedented “F” for his environmental performance. This, we believed, was the only appropriate grade for his administration’s reckless, relentless and intellectually dishonest assault on this nation’s most basic environmental protections.

How about some proof that the air and water is measurably worse now, and that we are suffering a health crisis because of it?

Sounding all sciency and stuff there Kerry...good enough for Nerdular Nerdence…

In its 2003 report card, the League of Conservation Voters awarded President George W. Bush an unprecedented “F” for his environmental performance. This, we believed, was the only appropriate grade for his administration’s reckless, relentless and intellectually dishonest assault on this nation’s most basic environmental protections.\r
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Have to love how the LCV didn’t even mention ONE assault Bush has made on any of this nation’s most basic environment protections.  OH, wait!  What’s that you say?  They don’t have to?  The allegation alone is enough is it? Silly me.\r
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As for the LCV being non-partisan—If you believe that, I have some “beachfront” property in Florida to sell you.

My problem in this case has nothing to do with partisanship...it’s the silly claim that in just three years, we’re in a *current* health crisis due to Bush’s policies.  It’s not possible to change the environments across America that quickly without a SERIOUS event, like Chernobyl.  Kerry may have *later* clarified that he’s _mostly_ referring to what *might* happen due to the current administrations’ policies, but the words that came out of his mouth were this:\r
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“Under President Bush we have seen a devastating deterioration not only in our economy but in our public health and safety."\r
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I call bullshit.  Someone, *please* show me some science that demonstrates the fact that our health and public safety has deterioriated due to the White House’s current policies.

jim.  i will see if i can find anything.\r
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however...\r
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i think you’re being ridiculous on this one.  i’m not quite sure why you picked the one issue for which there is just NO support for bush to attack kerry on so vehemently.  (by the way, a deterioration in public health and safety is NOT the same as announcing a public health crisis.  not even CLOSE.)\r
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let’s assume for just a moment that there is no hard evidence that there has been deterioration to the environment.  i’m pretty sure i can find some (i’m a lawyer, not a scientist, so i won’t pretend to have those types of facts on hand), but let’s assume.\r
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does it matter?  just because in 3 years there’s no “measurable difference” means in 8 years there won’t be?  to actually think that bush has even the tiniest iota of concern about the environment is completely unsupported.\r
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i’m actually offended by the fact that you can’t see that bush is the environmental equivalent of going door to door and taking away your guns after repealing the 2d Amendment.  he is THAT bad.\r
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the best candidate for the economy can be debated.  the best candidate for homeland security can be debated.  environmental record?  bush will lose every time.  if you want to argue it’s an irrelevant issue, that’s one thing.  if you want to argue that his environmental record has no impact on your opinion of bush’s effectiveness as a president, that’s fine.  but to blast kerry for calling bush out on the same thing he has been called out on for 3 years just because you don’t like kerry… i honestly don’t get it.\r
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kerry is 100% on point with this one.  i’m absolutely mind boggled as to why you can’t see that you’re doing EXACTLY what you accuse him of doing: “kerry says X.  it MUST be just because he wants to accuse bush of being wrong, not because he may have a valid point.” this time, there’s no doubt in my mind that kerry’s point is valid.\r
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i will see if i can find anything, even though i feel no matter what I give you, it’ll be an exercise in futility, because someone is going to find a way to cast doubt simply because i happen to be a liberal.  i try to give LCV as a source, but no… they’re too liberal for your readers.  for example, there’s a WONDERFUL article written for Rolling Stone by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. regarding the environmental record of this administration, but i figure why bother offering the link, when the response will be “I DON’T BELIEVE HIM HE’S A KENNEDY.” it’s easily found with a quick google search if you’re interested.  and i stand by Bobby’s record as a credible environmentalist, even if your readers may not.\r

Have to love how the LCV didn’t even mention ONE assault Bush has made on any of this nation’s most basic environment protections\r
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did you happen to actually READ the site i linked to???

WHy is it that everything has to be boiled down to a for/against position?  I thought when Dubya did that it was a bad thing?\r
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I criticized Kerry’s mistatement.  That does not mean I wholeheartedly endorse Bush’s environmental policies.  Hyperbole doesn’t suit either of you J&j;, just because it’s an issue *you* care about the way I care about the Second.  I never *defended* Bush here.\r
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I’m still waiting for *evidence* of this crisis.  Not a fear it may happen.  Same thing I do with gun control...if you can’t prove it, you’re just beating a fear drum.  I’m not even going to respond to the race-baiting.\r
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As for Kerry’s positions?  How’s his VOTING RECORD versus his campaign promises?

i’m still looking for evidence pertaining to degradation over the past 3 years.\r
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but this stuff here is the type of thing that scares the crap out of me.

here’s some water pollution stuff

I’d LOVE IT if he would simply say “This is the current state of the environment, and here is how *my* plans would improve things.” But he can’t do that, because he’s riding the ABB horse.\r
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to be fair… he can’t do that because he’s being a politician.  he’s no different than ANY politician.  i wholeheartedly agree with you that i would love to hear “this is how it is.  this is what i’ll do.  this is my expected outcome,” but at this point in our nation, there’s not one politician i would believe anyway ;)\r
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also, i think at this point his strategy is “gee, i’m not even the official nominee.  i think i’ll show how the other guy is BAD.  when i’m actually nominated, THEN we’ll get down to business"\r
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at least i would hope.  i mean, it’s not like i don’t hear anti-kerry ads on tv every day, so he’s not alone (not that it makes it right).  bush really isn’t better.  since he’s actually president at the moment, he just has no choice but to actually talk about what’s going on NOW sometimes ;)\r
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as for the race baiting, i think you are just reading too much into the point of including that.  bad air = bad breathing.  the 1 in 4 number (i think, i’m speaking for john who is sleeping downstairs, so i will let him agree or disagree) was offered as a form of evidence of an impact on health.  the impact happens to be disparately effecting that race.  it was not intended to say bush is a racist, etc.\r

my husband is just so cute when he gets all tree-huggy like me :)

I’m still reading and researching stuff about this topic in order to formulate a more coherent argument (by which I mean lawyer-speak, not fight-speak), but the ANWR thing grabs me too...why should it not be tapped?  It *is* possible to drill it and do a minimal amount of environmental damage, which as humans is the best we can ask for.  We want to end dependence on foreign oil somehow...alternative energy is just too damn expensive right now.  Are we just going to pretend that drilling ANWR will kill the globe?\r
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Nothing we do to ANWR cannot be repaired by Mother Nature.  She’ll be ruining and repairing this rock long after we’re gone from it as a species.

Josh\r
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With all due respect, you are an idiot.\r
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I stopped reading immediately after that, because I very well knew that reading whatever you said proceeding that would take away from how goddamned funny that statement was.  I love you forever for that statement, and so should everyone else on this planet.

Anything specific you want to know about? It is one of those been there done that things for me\r
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why do accounts of oil yield range from 6 month supply to 10 year supply?  i understand the guess work involved, but that’s a bit of a difference. 

WOW.  Now that’s some info on ANWR.  More to assimilate...\r
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The last week I have read more opposing ideas about the earth than I thought were possible to have.  Did you know that literally everything that can be done with every patch of land on the planet has at least one advocate telling you that doing that thing on that patch of land will kill you and everyone you love?\r
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Seriously.  Someone has called dibs on the doomsday prophesizing for each square kilometer of the planet.  And someone else has called dibs on the strip mall rights.\r
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Oh, BTW, I’m in CT.  WAY smaller.  :)

the supply of which i question is US usage.\r
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you can understand why i had issues believing 6 months.... ;)

Seriously. Someone has called dibs on the doomsday prophesizing for each square kilometer of the planet. And someone else has called dibs on the strip mall rights.\r
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a;sdfja;ldkf welcome to my client base ;)