Maybe good intentions but it will go wrong; someone on either side will end up dead. As a lot of the migrants are organised by big smuggling groups they will probably just start arming them. End will result will be dead mexicans, dead “minutemen” and dead offical officers no dealing with migrants who are armed.

Fix the borders for sure; amazing how bad they are; but this istn’t the way.

As a Border Patrol Agent myself, I (and every other agent I know) can say that armed (or otherwise) individuals taking matters into their own hand is not a good thing.  The borders are a lost cause.  If you believe O’Reilly, putting the military on the border would solve all our problems.

It wouldn’t.

I’d venture to say that the rate of illegal wouldn’t change one bit.

The only way surefire way to stop illegal immigration cold is to start hammering the employers that hire these people.  Cake.  We’re already authorized by law to conduct employer sanctions, but strangely, we aren’t allowed to do them.

Anyway, NO to BP “helpers.” I understand why they’re doing it, but extra people down there blowing ops will not be helpful.

I still think that the fact is we are at war, Allows the US to militarize the border. If there is illegal entry on the pourous border then they ARE INVADING OUR COUNTRY. If people want to immigrate to our country then do so through legal entry points. those who try to cross fixed lines of our armed forces do so at their peril, do you know who is a terrorist or not? Those who survive and are interogated, will be returned to whence they came or sent to Guantonimo. I think it will be a big deterrence when they realize that the illegal entry cost will be a lot higher then it was, their lives.

As far as smugglers are concerned they are already armed, how do you think that they keep their cargo under control?

The US employers that hire these Illegal Immigrants, are the ones that destablize the American Economy, They should be Charged with treason as they are doing more damage to American Economic strength.

All of these issues need to be put in force to protect America’s Interests.

Evan

So far, the only ones who are making asses of themselves about all this is the “liberal” do-gooders and the ACLU.  I find it funny that the ACLU wants to sue the Minutemen for lawfully assembling.  They are NOT there to use guns, though some have them.  They are to report illegals crossing into the US, and that is it.  So far it has been peaceful.  I understand the Border Patrol’s uneasiness about this, but the Minutemen have briefed about what to do and what not to do.  On another note, I wish every single business in the US would have a sweep by the INS, or whoever does this, to check for legal documented workers.  If this could be done on a surprise basis at least once a year, it could yield interesting results.  For those knowingly employing illegals, a HUGE, STIFF FINE would be good.  I know manpower is probably not there, but wishful thinking is nice.

Capt,

I think it will be a big deterrence when they realize that the illegal entry cost will be a lot higher then it was, their lives.

Lots of people crossing the borders already die. It is a horrendous walk through the desert in some of the crossing points and not everyone makes it. If you have almost nothing and see the opportunity to provide food, medicine etc for your family - even if that means risking your life - you would probably do it.

As far as smugglers are concerned they are already armed, how do you think that they keep their cargo under control?

Do you mean people smugglers here or stuff smugglers? As far as I understand it, the organised crime gans just organise the people, give them maps, tell them where to go make sure they are prepared etc and then they are on there own. My guess is one of the new things they will start doing soon to prepare them is give them a gun or method of protecting themselves. At the moment the militia are saying they will not engage anyone in anyway and I am sure 90% won’t. I am also pretty sure there are some people joining up who are just itching for a fight.

As always, the best way to change behavious is remove the rewards for doing it (ie crack down on employees). Trying to prevent the supply of something valuable, be it illegial immigration or drugs; just won’t work. A day 1 economics student should be able to tell you that.

It seems to me that the Texas Rangers were created specifically for this task, volunteers will never work, because they will be though of as a militia.  Anyway I agree with CaptCBleu you have to go after the people who hire illegal immigrants.

Lee, is it really a good idea to give a bunch of rednecks an excuse to shoot immigrants?

Microbrain506, I think it might be a good idea for you to put off calling other people “rednecks” when you yourself are too stupid to keep track of whose blog you’re posting in.

This is interesting. Of course the economist sums up the problem. Immigrants are good for the country but the country is rather xenophobic (as are all rich countries) towards immigrants. Just see how unpopular Bush’s attempts at legal immigration have been, and they are really only a fraction of what is needed.

Lee, is it really a good idea to give a bunch of rednecks an excuse to shoot immigrants?

Change that to “illegal immigrants” (or maybe even “invading forces”, given that we are at war), and I’ll bet you come up with a much different answer.

And Rann is right, you should really pay attention to where you’re saying what you’re saying. We’ll still be laughing at your idiocy, but at least it will be for the right reasons…

Padders,

The difference is if I were to immigrate for work, I would do so LEGALLY, I would not illegally cross into a country to look for a job or medical care. There are legal crossing points on both sides of our country use them. I am all for posting the US Armed Forces and or the governers of the border States activating the militia (both organized and unorganized) to be placed on the border as a fixed line, to lethaly enforce the borders.

Unbeknownst to you there is more than one organized gang smuggling human cargo, they use weapons to keep control of their Human cargo. there is more than one way to smuggle humans. You live to much in a sheltered world Padders, come over for a visit and learn about the real world of the US is like, or would that burst your bubble?

Terrorists know where the US weakness’ are and are exploiting them, for once why don’t we use our assets and shut them down.

Evan

Terrorists know where the US weakness’ are and are exploiting them, for once why don’t we use our assets and shut them down.

Well said, but then these asswips will most likley get in the way

So far, the only ones who are making asses of themselves about all this is the “liberal” do-gooders and the ACLU.  I find it funny that the ACLU wants to sue the Minutemen for lawfully assembling.

The difference is if I were to immigrate for work, I would do so LEGALLY, I would not illegally cross into a country to look for a job or medical care.

If people could legaly immigrate to the US when they wanted they wouldn’t risk their lives to do it how they do.

And seriously, if your daughter was dieing of some disease and you could not afford her medical treatment, you wouldn’t break another countries law and try and get in there to do some honest work so you could pay for her?

These people take a risk and it is fair to punish them for taking that risk; they are not however bad people and this if often the only choice for them. You can think they are wrong and want to send them to jail or back home, but have some compassion for their situation.

Unbeknownst to you there is more than one organized gang smuggling human cargo, they use weapons to keep control of their Human cargo. there is more than one way to smuggle humans. You live to much in a sheltered world Padders, come over for a visit and learn about the real world of the US is like, or would that burst your bubble?

Sorry, I don’t get your point. I am sure some people are smuggled over under armed protection already; all I am sayig is that vigilante action will encourage exactly more of this.

As for the typical ad honimem attack, I have spent a good 2 years in the US now, I will be back in California by the end of the month. I think my life is hardly sheltered.

Padders,

I have no compassion for those that repeatedly break the law of our nation by crossing over into this conuntry to get what they don’t have in their country. If they want improve their situation then immigrate to this country, but do it legally. As far I am concerned I will always stand by my views in reguard to this issue.

And no I would not break another country’s law just to get medical care for any member of my family. I would do every thing I could within the law, to get what medical care would be needed, even if that means I have to apply for a visa to get that care in another country. If this is not possible then god’s will be done. Sorry if this offends you, but I aquired these views after opening my eyes to see the world as it is. That is why I left the democratic party, and became a conservetive.

Evan

Evan,

Its a fair enough view; you value the laws of another country more than the personal values of your family. I applaud you for that as it is very unselfish; I just don’t think it is very typical of human nature. Perhaps the world would be a better place if it was, I don’t know.

Personally I think I would do anything to protect/help my family - I don’t think that makes me a bad person, in the same way these immigrants are not. I would of course accept the consequences for my actions; thats the risk you take.

This will only get worse - still think its a good idea Jim?

padders, I think it would serve you well as a human being to stop trying to be an expert in things you have no expertise with, nor a frame of reference to understand.  I think your intellectual dishonesty is apalling.

But hey, it’s your brain, if you want to be that way, no skin off my nose.

As to your link?  Yes.  I do.

Jim, thats fine you still think its a good idea; as to your “point” what exactly are you talking about? Lack of expertise for what? Lack of frame of reference for what exactly? Intellecutal dishonesty - what exactly are you talking about?

Padders, I’ll give you an example of your intellectual dishonesty.

You point to the actions of a VERY small number of people and assign their actions to the Minutemen.  They are not a part of the Minutemen, and their actions should in no way reflect on the Minutemen.  Not even you can possibly be advocating a world where you have to take blame for the actions of another who is not under your order, influence or fellowship.

The illegal immigrants do far worse each and every day to the border towns they overrun.  You might serve yourself well to try to dig up information that comes from the people who live there.  You rely so much on filtered information...and I consider that intellectually dishonest in a day and age when you can, by opening a web browser or email get stories straight from the mouths of the horses so to speak.

As for the integrity of the project...I have already stated how I find it unacceptable to assign blame to them for something the group is not doing.  The Minutemen themselves are simply a big version of Neighborhood Watch.  Not even a subject (as opposed to a citizen) like you can possibly oppose watching your neighborhood and calling the police when you see suspicious activity, can you?

If someone chooses to pose as one of them, the responsibility lies with the person doing the posing.  If they break a law, they should be arrested and punished.

Otherwise, they are simply armed watchdogs.  My local movie theater has an armed watchdog.  We call them “security guards.” Perhaps you;ve heard of the concept?

Unless the Feds get serious about funding the border patrol...I fully support the free, upstanding and decent citizens of this country watching their own backyards.  In fact, I almost prefer it.

Jim,

I didn’t assign the actions of some to the Minutemen at all. Where did I say anything like this? My arguments against supporting something like this are:

i) Someone will end up dead
ii) It will escalte the use of violence in this activity
iii) Border protection agents are put at further risk (this was 63Echo’s point though more).

Where did I say that all these people are bad, rednecks, going to shoot people or anything of the sort. You pulled that from the thin air Jim - istn’t that intellectual dishonesty?

The illegal immigrants do far worse each and every day to the border towns they overrun.  You might serve yourself well to try to dig up information that comes from the people who live there.  You rely so much on filtered information...and I consider that intellectually dishonest in a day and age when you can, by opening a web browser or email get stories straight from the mouths of the horses so to speak.

Where did I say that illigal immigration should not be prevented or stopped? Where did I say it was not bad? I said that it should be prevented but that this was not IMHO opinion the correct way. You need to remove the reward for illegal immigration (get tougher on employees, not allow stuipid legislation like drivers licenses etc).

Where did the filtered information part come from? What are you even talking about here? Where did I say illegal immigrants don’t do bad things?

As for the integrity of the project...I have already stated how I find it unacceptable to assign blame to them for something the group is not doing.  The Minutemen themselves are simply a big version of Neighborhood Watch.  Not even a subject (as opposed to a citizen) like you can possibly oppose watching your neighborhood and calling the police when you see suspicious activity, can you?

The idea might be the same but there is a difference between people keeping an eye on each other’s houses than a group of armed people patrolling up and down a border. Its not the aim I have a problem with (inforcing laws) just the consequences.

If someone chooses to pose as one of them, the responsibility lies with the person doing the posing.  If they break a law, they should be arrested and punished.

Sure. My point is that something that is likely to lead to this sort of thing is why I wouldn’t encourage it. All in all I don’t think this “minutemen” will prevent a single immigrant crossing; and the chances are someone one either “side” will end up dead.

Otherwise, they are simply armed watchdogs.  My local movie theater has an armed watchdog.  We call them “security guards.” Perhaps you;ve heard of the concept?

My hope is that they are properly trained for such a job. That the cinema/police etc also want them there (as opposed to the Border Patrol who do not).

Unless the Feds get serious about funding the border patrol...I fully support the free, upstanding and decent citizens of this country watching their own backyards.  In fact, I almost prefer it.

This is where we differ. I prefer to have experts and properly trained people doing these types of job. You seem to prefere a type of vigilantism. Thats fine, but thats where are thoughts differ; not on what you claimed I am being intellectually dishonest about.