HAHA.  Thank you.

Amen brudda, Amen.

And did ya notice he started off like Prez Clinton did with that pledge of “This shall be the most transparent and scandal free admnistration in history” and within minutes 4 of his appointee’s are in trouble.

I still pray he is more Clinton than Carter, but I’m not holden my breath.

That would be nice but don’t hold your breath. We’re not talkin bout the party of responsibility here. Bambi’s already blaming Bush and stomping his widdle feet “I won!”. He will be worse than Carter.

Let me get this straight:  you are blaming OBAMA for this economy?!  FOR REAL?  I voted for Bush too; I’m not afraid to not only admit that I voted for him, but also that he most certainly allowed the economy to fall into its current condition.  Studying finance, it’s quite obvious that the lack of regulation and market oversight caused this mess.  Who’s lap could that ultimately fall on?  Be happy that the US population is less likely to be lied to under the current administration and is less likely to justify the bullsh*t fiscal drain on American money and lives across the globe.

Studying finance, it’s quite obvious that the lack of regulation and market oversight caused this mess.

In part. That is a ridiculously simplified view of only a small part of the trouble we are in.

Who’s lap could that ultimately fall on?

Bush actually tried to inject oversight into the subprime mess REPEATEDLY. Democrats rejected him every time. Barney Frank in particular. Obama also. Dodd, others who were given the chance to reign this in over the last two years.

That is neither here nor there. YOU CANNOT SPEND YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT. Period. If you “study economics” as you claim?  You would know that.

You don’t put 5, 12, 15 year future projects into a stimulus bill and say it has to be passed RIGHT NOW. You don’t hide the text of the bill when you just promised a “sunshine before signing” policy.

Obama’s plan is going to bankrupt us, and I for one will be glad to see it happen.  We need a little fiscal bloodletting to teach this generation that you cannot live on credit. Then they’ll stop listening to idiotic Democrat financial promises for another 40 years.

Change. Hope. Lies. Obfuscation. Irresponsible spending above even that of Mr. Big Spender himself, GWB. And that is my point: Obama voters need to own their decision and admit what they did when this guy bankrupts the nation and destroys what is left of the economy - intentionally, all for the goal of social engineering.

Simplified statement, yes.  But it is what created the subprime debacle which led to the credit crisis and investors’ fear of taking on risk, creating a larger problem than that what originally existed. 

Look Jim.  I’m not attacking you.  I don’t want to be punched in the face :) I also don’t follow the political side of things as close as you apparently do, so I won’t argue what Bush did or what Democrats did.  That sh*t frustrates the hell out of me.

I didn’t say that I “study economics”.  I have studied financial management.  I wasn’t aware that we were discussing debt either, I thought we were talking about Obama and the economy.  America’s debt is not the driving force behind our recession.  If it was, you could give Bush even more credit for the condition of our economy. 

It is very insightful for you to recognize that “YOU CANNOT SPEND YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT. Period.” Nicely put.  However, governments have historically demonstrated the ability to shorten a recessionary period through increased government spending, mainly by creating jobs, specifically in sectors which improve the infrastructure.  It is a generally a win-win situation.  I wish I didn’t have to pay for it either, but do you have a better idea?  I think aggressive action is much better than a passive stance here.  Just take a look at how Japan and the U.S. came out of the “100 year/perfect storm” after the LTCM-inspired mess. 

I’m not aware of the 5,12,15 year start-up dates.

America is already bankrupt, sorry to break the news...and you’re “glad”?  I know you’ve been pretty die-hard Republican, but you would put politics before your country?  Jesus.

I would just like to let you in on the subject that I am also unsatisfied with our options for president.  Why do we always have to choose who we believe to be the lesser evil?  Basically, I voted for the Obamer because I’m sick of being lied to.  I would be naïve to believe that Obama will not ever lie, but c’mon, McCain was clueless AND and asshole (albeit not as big as Miss Jameson’s apparently:).

Anyway, it was my first time contributing to any of your blogs after reading them for years...I’m starting to wish I hadn’t got involved...I just usually like to hear what you have to say.  Thanks for the good reading...and never give up on the U.S.  I’ve been stuck in Germany for the last 4 years with only one trip back to the States.  Live somewhere else and you’ll see why America is so special.

I also don’t follow the political side of things as close as you apparently do, so I won’t argue what Bush did or what Democrats did

Nope you don’t want to debate.  You just want to blame Bush.  Standard tactics from lying shits like you.  Throw out your bash, then be too chicken to defend your view.  “Its Bush’s fault!!!!” “Hey I don’t want to argue about what Bush or the democrats did”

Pathetic.

Good stuff, thanks.

At what point exactly did I lie or not defend my view?  I find it amusing that so many Americans choose to debate anything having to do with politics with emotion over logic.

I know you’ve been pretty die-hard Republican, but you would put politics before your country?  Jesus.

Would you like to know how I know that you’re not being honest here? That quote above. It isn’t even close to accurate. Jim isn’t a Republican, let alone a “pretty die-hard Republican”. That’s public knowledge, and if you had been following his blogs for four years you’d know that. You’d also know that he would never put his politics before his country, but since you’ve already been been busted I see no reason to continue to beat a dead horse.

Would like you like to try again in Double Jeopardy, where the points can really add up?

At what point exactly did I lie or not defend my view?

Well let’s see.  You started with this:

I voted for Bush too; I’m not afraid to not only admit that I voted for him, but also that he most certainly allowed the economy to fall into its current condition.  Studying finance, it’s quite obvious that the lack of regulation and market oversight caused this mess.

Jim pointed out the bull shit to your statement. And your response is what I pointed out before.

I find it amusing that so many Americans choose to debate anything having to do with politics with emotion over logic.

Which is exactly what you did.  When Jim pointed out the logic and facts of the problem at hand you decided the solution was to stick your fingers in your ears and not listen.  You aren’t interested in getting the truth and learning reality, only believing and repeating the lies you have been told.

Do, pray tell, explain to a lying shit-chicken how Obama created the economy the U.S. is now enduring...seeing how my views are so non-logical and utter farce.  Forgive me, as I apparently have no grasp on the subject.  How EXACTLY did the U.S. fall into recession?  Educate me.

Do, pray tell, explain to a lying shit-chicken how Obama created the economy the U.S. is now enduring.

Point out where someone claimed that.  Of course he certainly didn’t spend his time in the senate attempting to fix anything.  Nope, he was too busy being the Legislator to get the second most money from Freddie and Fannie.

So go ahead and point out where someone is claiming Obama created the current economy.

If I see ONE SINGLE OBAMA VOTER ANYWHERE...I mean anywhere...complain about the economy in the next two years, I will punch you in the fucking face.

You voted for this shit.

And the NEXT two years is somehow in the past?  He’s talking about what Obama is doing to “fix” the economy.  Talk about not being able to apply logic.

Wow dude.  Get back on your meds.  And who made you the spokesman for Jim? 

And the NEXT two years is somehow in the past?

What does that even MEAN?!?

He’s talking about what Obama is doing to “fix” the economy.

Our current economy has been built on past decisions or lack thereof, along with the economy for the next two years.  Anything Obama does to “fix” the economy will not be felt for another two years, minimum.  More likely four or more.

Wow dude.  Get back on your meds.  And who made you the spokesman for Jim?

I’m not his spokesman,however, I can, get this, comprehend what jim is saying.  You lack the ability to do so.

What does that even MEAN?!?

What it means is that jim is talking about the future.  You are claiming his talk about the future is blame for the past like.  Its like if I said it was going to rain tomorrow and you say I claimed it rained yesterday.

Our current economy has been built on past decisions or lack thereof, along with the economy for the next two years.  Anything Obama does to “fix” the economy will not be felt for another two years, minimum.  More likely four or more.

Which is why the stock markets started to tank during Geitner’s speech about the next bailout today right?  Its actually reacting to things from 2-5 years ago.

But you are right how it won’t be felt for 2-4 years though, but not for why you think.  Most of the shit in the stimulus isn’t set to go into effect until 2011-2012, right around election time.  Meanwhile there are economists out there talking about how if we would do nothing we would be out of the recession before the end of this year.

And that is why I love buzzion.

You knwo what?  I’d gladly let you be my spokesman if I was anywhere near important enough to need one, buzz.  You said it all...this person got caught trying to change the discussion and defend Obama while blaming Bush, and you called them up on it.

wanna - You are trying to make my post about the last 40 years of debt spending.  It is not.  It is about the fact that Obama is trying to RUSH a boondoggle of a spending bill - more than half of which is social engineering, NOT economic stimulus - through Congress before ANYONE can examine it closely.

My point was - and is - that if this bill does what I suspect it will do, which is deepen the recession and cripple us *now* (much less in the future) then those who voted for Obama do not get to complain.

Why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD THIS GUY WOULD SPEND LIKE A DRUNKEN SAILOR. Bush spent like it was someone else’s money.  Obama is attempting to spend like it’s not even real money anymore, just some numbers on a page he can play with so he looks Presidential.  He’s taking a terrible situation and making it exponentially worse.

I attempted to talk facts with you.  Start dates of proposed elements in a STIMULUS bill are important.  Stimulus implies you want it to work quickly to head off - or at least mitigate - a recession.  Adding in social engineering projects and pork that doesn’t break ground for 12 years is not stimulus.  The Democrats are using the economic crisis to push all their favorite projects into the bill.

Know the last time that happened? 9/11 - when Bush and a Republican Congress rammed all sorts of bills through without letting anyone have time to read them.

Lastly, I think you are a liar.  You are not in this country now and you used the phrase “so many Americans.” That’s not the way people talk unless they are outside the group to which the refer, generally.  Leads me to think that you never voted for Bush as you claimed in the beginning.  So not only are you too pigheaded to see the simple facts of what I am saying, you seem to be intentionally lying just to continue arguing with me and everyone else.  You’ve insulted me, lied to me and accused me of putting a party to which I do not belong above my love of country.

Tell me why I shouldn’t kick your fucking ass the hell off my blog for that.  Go ahead. See if you can turn this around by being an honest person, both in word and intellect.

Holy crap, Buzz gives new definition to the label “stupid American”.  Read a fucking book. 

Which is why the stock markets started to tank during Geitner’s speech about the next bailout today right?  Its actually reacting to things from 2-5 years ago.

Maybe someday you’ll see how ridiculous that statement is, but I doubt it.

Lastly, I think you are a liar.  You are not in this country now and you used the phrase “so many Americans.” That’s not the way people talk unless they are outside the group to which the refer, generally.

Right, and if I said “so many Germans” take the train, eat pork, and love their vehicles I wouldn’t actually be living here in Germany.  So many Americans are fat.  So many Americans watch TV.  So many Americans can’t cook.  So many Americans drink shitty beer.  So many Americans put in long hours.  So many Americans have credit cards.  So many Americans talk about shit they know nothing about, and try to portray themselves as an expert regarding anything they have developed an opinion for to protect their sense of pride or insecurities.  The immediate reaction to personally attack rather than discuss couldn’t make it more obvious.

Jim, I lost a lot of respect for you.  I only decided to comment on this entry because I was so surprised by your first statement.  Yeah, it was funny and you were probably just venting, but I figured you must have something to back it up.  The fact is that this argument has lost it’s focus and is now concerning something different than the statement I responded to. Whatever, no problem.  I’m not aware of the intricacies of the stimulus plan (we were originally talking about the state of the current economy, which wasn’t caused by anything Obama has done), but I find it difficult to believe that Obama is looking to include something “social-engineering-like” that would take effect in anything more than four years.  Obamer is looking to pass legislation for the next president to shoot down?  Much like Bush’s unimplemented policies were terminated by Barack? 

This is just getting all conspiracy-theory like.

I’m calling it quits here.  This is pointless.

Holy crap, Buzz gives new definition to the label “stupid American”.

Gee, and the America-bashing comes out.

It’s like every time your points get eviscerated, a little strip gets taken out of you that shows your true colors.

Jim, I lost a lot of respect for you.

I’m sure he’s heartbroken. I know that I personally lose a lot of sleep at night, worrying about whether I’ve gained or lost the respect of raving Obamabots with SpinControl 2.009 installed. You wouldn’t believe the tossing and turning I do, staring at the ceiling, thinking “But what if intellectually dishonest anti-Republicans don’t like what I said? How can I go on without their respect? How can I lift my body from the sheets when I know that somewhere, someone may have lost respect for me because I stated my own opinion, and failed to blindly accept their own faulty accusations and lies? What can I do? How can I live?”

Tears me up, I can tell ya.

The fact is that this argument has lost it’s focus and is now concerning something different than the statement I responded to. Whatever, no problem. 

You don’t even know what the original statement was about.  Dumbass.

I’m not aware of the intricacies of the stimulus plan (we were originally talking about the state of the current economy, which wasn’t caused by anything Obama has done),

Demonstrating again you don’t know what this is about.  We’re not talking about the state of the current economy dumbass.  We’re talking about what’s going to happen because of Obama pushing for more spending.

but I find it difficult to believe that Obama is looking to include something “social-engineering-like” that would take effect in anything more than four years.

“I don’t know what is in the stimulus bill but I’m sure it doesn’t contain any social-engineering in it despite the fact that I haven’t looked into it.” You also have people pointing out to you that there are aspects of it which do not get implemented until 2011-2012 which is not going to help the current “crisis.” This bill also then becomes a benchmark for future spending, Obama’s claims of it being temporary are bullshit and will have repercussions for government for years beyond his administration.

And just for fun, let’s say that this is Bush’s fault.  Its been his spending habits that have led to this crisis like President ‘Present’ wants to claim.  His solution to fix the problem Bush has caused?  Double the amount of spending he has done.  Well gosh wannabe that’s just genius isn’t it.

First off, I think anyone should be able to complain about anything whenever they want. Whether they have a leg to stand on or not is the question. The right to look like a complete hypocrite and tool is one I would never take away from somebody.

It seems to me that the movers behind this plan are working the odds. What I mean by that is, They have a 50/50 chance of the economy recovering in time for the next election no matter what they do. At the same time they’ve got a chance to put a single bill through that will strengthen democrat programs and constituencies for decades and an excuse to make it happen. They’re just making the bet that the stimulus won’t hurt the economy for at least the period of time they need to enact all these programs and shore up their votes.

I’m not saying it’s right, but it is smart. There is a plan (or an agenda if you will). They’re not pushing this thing through because they’re stupid.

Lastly, Democrats will still complain if the stimulus hurts the economy. People always believe what they want to believe and to these guys it’s always someone else’s fault. I mean, How can you be wrong when you have such good intentions?

The right to look like a complete hypocrite and tool is one I would never take away from somebody.

Explaining why you have an internet connection.

Wanna...not to make this the schoolyard crap you were going for, but you just got your ass kicked and now you’re pretending you still have your dignity while you leave.

You shifted the focus, you lied, you accused me of things you couldn’t POSSIBLY believe if you’ve read my blog for more than 5 minutes...and now you’re running with your tail between your legs instead of dealing directly and honestly with the things I actually said.

Why?  Why not buck up, engage your intellectual muscles and get down with your bad self?  Why all the name calling, obfuscation and bullshit?

I’m gonna guess it’s because under your bluster, you got *nothing* and you have no desire to actually research this bill and see how damaging it really is.  You just want to love the cool young black dude with the hip image.  You fucking bought into the fist bump, as though it wasn’t a calculated move thought up by image consultants.

If you want to talk specifics about why this bill is dangerous, I will gladly put aside all the name calling bullshit and do exactly that.  If you want to continue your bullshit, you can just walk away like you said you would.

(Whoops, missed that it was supercore that said that. I am embarrassed and apologize for not paying closer attention.)

Anyway. I’m guessing the thing is, there’s going to be plenty of complaining about the economy… but it will all be Bush’s fault. Bush will continue to be the boogeyman/punching bag throughout Obama’s tenure, until a new Republican scratching post gets elected.

missed that it was supercore that said that.

I was gonna say… Friendly fire is a bitch sometimes :)

No need to apologize.