For the record I am not a Catholic.  But your commentary goes too far.

In that TV show, they flushed the Host down the crapper in order to get laughs.  I think this does indeed warrant Catholic outrage.

JimK, try wiping your ass with a Dreidel in front of a crowd of Jews.  Or taking a crap on a copy of the Qu’ran in front of Muslims, or taking a shit on a Buddha statue’s laugh in public view in Kathmandu.  I guarantee that you will find members of those other religions just as “uptight” about it as Catholics are about this episode.

As for your reference to the priests’ sex scandal, other than to make a limited comment in response to the Catholic League, it really has nothing to do with the current issue.  Catholicism is so much bigger than the perverts within the religion who perpetrated and perpetuated the sex scandal. 

Those who are sincerely practicing, non-depraved Catholics have full rights of anger in this case against NBC.

By the way, your comments rules say that commenters cannot use obscene or vulgar language here or they’ll be banned from their site.  I guess that means you’re the only one who can use such language, so you are going to have an awful lot of uneven one-sided conversations in the future rather than legitimate equal-toned discourse. 

This is my first time here but I personally find your tone nasty, strident and even inhumane, and I think it detracts from whatever point it is that you’re trying to make here.

Show some respect for those decent who are sincere about their religous beliefs and their own personal mode of contact with God.

Shame on NBC for debasing the sacredness of communion with toilet humor.

Why areb’t Protestants just as outraged? Don’t they also perform a rite called “Communion”, where in a sip of grape juice and an unleavened cracker is consumed “in remembrance of Me...”?

Why is it that only Catholics are pissed off? Maybe they just need to direct the public’s attention elsewhere. I just thought it was a dumb joke in the “fish out of water” genre. ("What if we manage to sneak a Jew into Communion?")

Get over yourselves. I heard more Catholic anger at Mel Gibson for “Passion"…

Quick question to the “not a Catholic"… How much of the tithed contributions by Cardinal Law’s Faithful went to pay off the victims of the robed rapists?

I gave up Catholicism officially some time in the tenth grade (I went to a catholic grade school until the eighth grade and then switched to public schools for ninth and beyond).  Since then I’ve done various religious gymnastics involving various forms of non-denominational christianity and now am solidly agnostic.  Catholicism is… stupid. imo

Hey… idiot newbie. Fuck you and your perverted cult of a church.
Just saw Constantine today. Tell ya, that’ll highlight what assholes Catholic priests are even when they’re just upholding their own religious creed and not being perverts.
“I’m so sorry for the loss of your sister… but since she committed suicide, she’s burning in Hell and we’re going to refuse to give her a Catholic funeral, too bad.”

How dare they voice their opinions of the show and to a part they find offensive. It’s like they live in America or something.

It’s like they live in America or something.

Yeah, where they want to ban everything they don’t agree with, except for priests that fuck young, underage, innocent CHILDREN.  Those we just re-assign.

I’m a lapsed Catholic myself, and normally find myself on the side of the artists in cases like this (for example, the burning of the PR flag in Seinfeld).

Here, though, they took what most Catholics believe to be, literally, the flesh of their savior and flushed it down the crapper. I think it entirely appropriate that Catholics be offended, and voice their offense, at that depiction.

That said, asking for the cancellation of this show is just going too far. So far as I’m aware, the show has no history to show anti-Catholic bias. It sounds like an honest fuck up, one in which generally oblivious writers didn’t realize how this would be perceived. Just ask for an apology and let it go.

As for the priest fucking, well, yeah, that’s screwed up and should damn well have everyone in the US, Catholic and not, questioning church authority. That said, my own priest was a wonderful, positive influence in my life, and I had nothing but terrific (non-sexual) experiences with all the priests and nuns I’ve dealt with. This seems to me to be the reverse of Ahbu-gharib, where the problem is not so much with the rank and file, but with the “higher authorities.” Let’s try to keep the two separate.

As for the Catholic League, I find it is much like the JDL and other similar organizations, at times too hyper-vigilant for its own good, but other times right on the money. I have absolutely no idea how they responded to the sex-abuse scandals and their cover up. Considering that this scandal has done more damage to the church than any external force, their response should pretty much say whether their opinion has any merit whatsoever.

Hey… idiot newbie. Fuck you and your perverted cult of a church.
Just saw Constantine today. Tell ya, that’ll highlight what assholes Catholic priests are even when they’re just upholding their own religious creed and not being perverts.
“I’m so sorry for the loss of your sister… but since she committed suicide, she’s burning in Hell and we’re going to refuse to give her a Catholic funeral, too bad.”

1) If you read carefully, you’ll see he’s not a Catholic.

2) If your best source of information on the Catholic Church is Constantine, you are in no position to give an informed opinion.

3) The reason why the character’s sister is refused a Catholic burial is because Catholics believe suicide to be a mortal sin. They believe it is as much as sin to take your own life as it is to take the life of another. Catholics also believe that one must ask for forgiveness to be forgiven for sins, but if you have (successfully) committed suicide that is simply not possible. Your last act is one of sin, not of contrition. You may disagree with this belief, but for Catholics, to overlook the act of suicide for a funeral mass would, in essence, say that it really isn’t a sin. It is not (or should not be) a religion that goes with whatever makes someone feel good (which could easily lead to the church turning the other way on things like abortion and euthanasia too).  It is not a matter of being heartless - most priests would feel great sorrow at the loss of one of their flock, especially to suicide, and regret not being able to comfort the surviving family. But that is exactly why they teach suicide is wrong, in the hopes that you won’t do it. The entire point of having a belief system is having something to believe in, not rough guidelines one can toss aside when things get a little uncomfortable (and that is precisely why the whole sex-abuse cover-up is so damaging to the entire system).

1) I would say that he’s lying. No one spends that much time defending something like this if they’re not either a part of the offended group, or just looking to bitch about something. Either way, he’s a fucking retard.

2) Yeah, whatever, fucking retard. Shut the fuck up, stupid fuck. You’re a god damn stupid piece of shit who should be flushed down the fucking toilet with all the fucking holy crackers.

3) Yap yap yap defense of stupid cult of child-fucking assholes yap yap yap. Shut up and die, and take your stupid fellow cultist there with you.

“The reason why the character’s sister is refused a Catholic burial is because Catholics believe suicide to be a mortal sin. They believe it is as much as sin to take your own life as it is to take the life of another. Catholics also believe that one must ask for forgiveness to be forgiven for sins, but if you have (successfully) committed suicide that is simply not possible. Your last act is one of sin, not of contrition.”

Pretty much all christians are required to believe this not just catholics.  A “saved” protestant wouldn’t commit suicide.  If they do, that’s a surefire sign that they never really were “saved” in the first place (which means that a successfull protestant suicide goes to hell too).

Hell is precisely the reason I don’t follow christianity right now.  Sure there are lots of other little reasons that people can use to try and chip away at a christian’s faith, but it’s like beating up a tank with a sledge hammer.  You might damage the paint, but you’re not going to cause any serious damage.  Hell is like a laser guided bomb.  You just have to focus that laser until the bomb hits and *boom* .. no more tank.

So let’s get this straight.  The following three statements are supported in an apparently straightforward manner in the bible (at least in popular translations anyway)

1) God is infinitely powerful

2) God desires that everyone be saved (and in fact went to great measures in an attempt to save everyone)

3) God requires that you come to have faith in the saving power of jesus christ before you die or you go to hell forever

4) At least 4000 years worth of people lived before Jesus died for everyone’s sins (so they presumably couldn’t be saved by him under the current GOD guidelines).

People need to forget about where the Bible seems to contradict science and/or history.  The worst contradictions are within the theology.  Those are the ones that are devestating to a Christian’s faith.

I can understand pain.  No pain no gain right?  Sometimes we have to go through unpleasant experiences to get through to something better.  That seems to work and makes sense in life.  I couldn’t argue about God holding people accountable for their actions.  But what the fuck is the point of god torturing people for eternity?  Surely an infinitely resourceful being could come up with a better system than that.  Sure, we need to lock some people up for life and kill some people.  But we’re only human.  We don’t have the resources to deal with psychopaths.

But Christian’s want us to believe that their infinitley powerful and loving deity doesn’t have those resources or chooses not to use them?  It’s insanity.

Hey, Jim, you know what would’ve been great?  If you would’ve summarized what exactly went on with Committed and the Catholic church for those of us who have absolutely no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.

Yeah, where they want to ban everything they don’t agree with

So what? Every group does this from Christians to Liberals to Conservatives. Just look at Dan Rather. He shows a liberal bias in what he says and Conservatives call for him to be banned. What would you do if Michael Moore was given a show that all he did was belittle conservative values and lie about the President? Wouldn’t you want it to be removed from the air?

except for priests that fuck young, underage, innocent CHILDREN.  Those we just re-assign.

It has been established that the church has made a lot of mistakes when dealing with this, but they have taken steps to try and correct this. There has also been a official apology from the Pope. To keep brining this up is like the liberals everytime they bring up WMD in Iraq.

I’m sure none of you really care about anything above. I’m sure you’ll dismisss it and some might even start get into swearing and yelling about it being a “cult”. So take of it what you will.

white rabbit: Uhh, are you new to blogs?

They’re called links.  You follow them.  On this site, they’re bright freaking red, pretty hard to miss.

white rabbit: Uhh, are you new to blogs?

They’re called links.  You follow them.  On this site, they’re bright freaking red, pretty hard to miss.

No, I’m not.  I just completely didn’t see the link for some odd reason.  Sorry about that.  End of a very long night.

davidst,

As a Luthern, I understand it like this. Rule 1 and 2 have always been around. Rule 3 was added after Jesus gave his life for the forgivness of all peoples sins. Thusly, those 4000 years worth of people would not have had rule 3, since they predated the act.

As for the whole priest sex abuse thing. As much as it disturbs me that such things happen, priests are just as human as you or I. Thus they are tempted by sin, as any other. To judge an entire religious group by the acts of these individuals is very narrow minded.

The problem, putzboy, is that the entire religious group are enablers to those acts. They pretend like it’s no big deal, go on just like they were before. The church doesn’t kick these guys out, or turn them in to the authorities, or even at the very least position them at some far-flung place where they’ll never be within eyesight of a kid let alone just have kids flung toward them to do as they will… they do in fact re-assign them, often changing their names, in essence doing nothing but providing them even more chances to abuse and molest with impugnity, practically encouraging that behavior. All the while just acting as if it’s completely assumed they should have complete authority in the matter, without even a thought to the laws or law enforcement of the actual countries where their churches are situated, as if they were above the law.
*spits* Catholics are stupid, insane, cultish fucks, and I’m not sorry to say that. I know it may make me prejudiced, but eh. Any religion that says “If you’re not one of us you’ll burn in Hell forever” deserves prejudice.

Consider me rebuked by your sharp insight and deep analytical abilities. I can see any further debate with you would be pointless, so I will leave you to wallow in your mudhole.

“As a Luthern, I understand it like this.”

As a Lutheran you’re even more insane than most Christians imo (no offense intended).  Didn’t Martin Luther specifically ask that no sect be named after him?  Don’t you believe that not only is God going to torture a lot of people in hell forever, but that we don’t even have any say in it!  Whoever’s going to heaven has been predestined to go!  Thanks a lot God!

“Thusly, those 4000 years worth of people would not have had rule 3, since they predated the act.”

So there are other ways to get to heaven?  Just for those people?  That would only be fair given the circumstances.  But if we want to talk about fairness, I don’t think a Lutheran has anything to say since they don’t believe in free-will (assuming you follow standard Lutheran doctrine).  There is no way to reconcile your theology in any sensible fashion, I’m sorry.  Of course, you don’t have to since you have no free will.  You’re simply along for the ride. 

Believe what you want, but don’t be surprised when someone like me says these kinds of things to you.

“*spits* Catholics are stupid, insane, cultish fucks, and I’m not sorry to say that. I know it may make me prejudiced, but eh. Any religion that says “If you’re not one of us you’ll burn in Hell forever” deserves prejudice.”

Amen.  That goes for most christians and muslims.  A few Christians cult’s such as Jehovah’s Witnesses and various individual non-denominational Christians have other views, but they are an extreme minority (the alternate views are that the folks that go to “hell” are simply annihilated (perhaps after a period of vengeance/torture) or else that eventually everyone is saved (although not necessarily immediately upon death).  The interesting thing is that it only takes reinterpretted or retranslating a few keys greek words in the New Testament to support these alternate beliefs and the cases for these alternate intepretations/translations are not weak (although not air tight either).

And now, to lighten the mood… some fun quotes about Catholics and Catholicism.

Masturbation is a sin.
Facts and religion.
Information-seeking.
How-to guide.
Lent.
If it’s good enough for Jesus...
Change in tradition.
The thinking process.
Getting the most mileage out of a sin.

Jesus i’m a catholic and the things you describe are hardly what I’ve seen. A good friend of mine commited suicide but we held a funeral at a catholic church. That same church, the priest apparently had a bad history with the “little boys” some 25 odd years back, and when the scandal broke out he was forced into retirement. I personally could not care less though, just keep bashing my religion, i don’t give a fuck, because i’ts not going to show me the light of “Atheism” or whatever the fuck you want.

From what i’ve read on his site JimK has every right to hold hatred for the catholic church. But even so i’ve been reading this site for a while now and I really think Jim has crossed the line here. Regardless of what you think of catholics what the show did was absolutely disgusting. Had this been done with a koran, or a menorah I would still be disgusted. What if this had been done with a menorah? Would all of you get upset if some members of judaism had gone up in arms about it? I’m all against censorship and the show doesn’t deserve to be cancelled. I’ve NEVER been upset over something that’s been played on tv (South park’s Whore-off was funny as hell) but this would make it a first. JimK I lost a little bit of respect for you with this, i didn’t think you were a man of double-standards. But thankfully you gained it back by posting those PTC clips! :-D

Jesus i’m a catholic and the things you describe are hardly what I’ve seen.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Jesus i’m a catholic and the things you describe are hardly what I’ve seen.

Being a part of organized religion is not necessary for faith. Being Catholic is most certainly not necessary. In fact, a lack of both can rather help.
As the saying goes, “Dear God, please save me from your followers.”

Oh, and it’s not like they flushed a Bible, so your examples of it being the Koran and whatnot are kind of off. It’s a fucking piece of bread… God would probably rather you worry more about doing good in the world than whether you’re gobbling down the flesh of his son in effigy.

as long as your good deeds come from the heart, I’m sure any reasonable god would care much more about them than various rituals and such

religion sucks

Sip, the fact that you would equate the left’s WMD lie with the reality of priests raping children is VERY fucking disturbing.  They;re not even in the same ballpark.

Bush went on intel that everyone believed was good at the time.

Priests all around the world, but especially here in the States, have been found guilty of molesting children.  Apples and engine blocks.  The Catholic Church lost the moral high ground a LONG time ago.  Sorry.  That’s how I feel.  They have no right to lecture anyone about a goddamned thing until every single priest that has ever laid a finger on a child is tried, convicted and imprisoned with FULL assistance from the Church in all prosecutions.  The Pope apologizing isn’t worth the air he took in to form the words.

Catholics are stupid, insane, cultish fucks, and I’m not sorry to say that. I know it may make me prejudiced, but eh. Any religion that says “If you’re not one of us you’ll burn in Hell forever” deserves prejudice.

Rann and davidst(who added all Christans and Muslims),

You are entitled to this opinion, it just shows me not to bother trying to discuss anything consering religion with either of you. [Sarcasim]
What with that moral high ground you possess and all. [/Sarcasim]

Look, I was raised a Lutheran. I am not a theology major, nor have I done any overly extensive study into most religions. I’m not a big supporter of organized religion, though I do consider myself religious.

As for the “standard Lutheran doctrine”. I guesse if what you are saying is the “standard"(ie no free-will, predetermined, etc), then no, I do not follow it. Perhaps I was fortunate in who my Pastor was, or what Lutheran church I attend(ed).

I’m done with this now, unless asked a direct question. Don’t want to waste my time on people who have openly stated there stance on the issue.

It has nothing to do with the act and everything to do with the response. Yes there was mistakes made and things that should not have happened did, but to blatantly disregard all the progress that the Church is making to make sure this doesn’t happen is “VERY fucking disturbing”. This is how I equate the two. The left even though no WMD were found and that we have brought freedom to the people of Iraq only focus on the negative. This is used to get their point across.  Here you have you dismissing the moral authority of the church because a handful of priests committed horrific years ago (notice how almost all the claims are from longer than 10-15 yrs ago) and yet they are working to fix the problems and you only focus on the negative. 

As for priest being prosecuted, I don’t know if you read the paper but they are. Plus I doubt that prosecuting everyone would make you happy. You seem pretty hateful of the Church and nothing seems like it is going to change what you think. There is so much more to all of this than I want to get into, with relation to the act of forgiveness and how this act was perceived at the time that all of these were committed. I am in no way trying to justify these acts. I just think there is more to it.

Just to let everyone know I am Catholic and I am proud to be Catholic. I don’t care what the rest of you think. Call it a cult and spew your hatred if you want. I know what I believe and what I hold true. I am not going to force you to become my religion and I don’t have hate for anyone in my heart. I will stand up for what I think is right and I will fight against what I believe is wrong.  I follow the teachings, but like all humans I do sin. As Jesus has said let the person with no sin cast the first stone. I doubt anyone here would be picking up a stone.

“Look, I was raised a Lutheran. I am not a theology major, nor have I done any overly extensive study into most religions. I’m not a big supporter of organized religion, though I do consider myself religious.”

Well, I’m glad you don’t follow standard lutheran doctrine.  If you don’t though, I don’t know how you can consider yourself a lutheran. Why not just a non-denominational christian?  You’ve already left behind the most significant (and worst) parts of lutheranism imo.

It’s just so surprising to me that so many people don’t put any thought into the theology behind their beliefs.  Most people’s beliefs are weak.

I’m an agnostic, but assuming there is a god and he is “good” on the level an infinitely powerful being is expected to be on, then I think it’s pretty clear that the worst ultimate fate any of us might face is non-existence.  No one is going to burn in hell forever.  Unless god is not good… in which case why bother trying.  We’d all pretty much be fucked in the long run.

I was baptised and confirmed a Lutheran. I can only go by what I’ve learned with my own reading of the bible, and what was taught/discussed in our Sunday classes that I attended for 8 years as a child.

Perhaps the church I attended was “different” or perhaps it was my Pastor. I don’t know. I do however understand my religion, it just may not be the Lutheran Religion you have a knowlege of.